Subscriber Discussion

Milestone Vs Avigilon - Remote Viewing Bandwidth Usage

Undisclosed Integrator #1

02/22/14 10:26pm

Is there any hard data or testing to determing which VMS offers the best performance and bandwidth savings on remote viewing using each VMS's thick client?

John Honovich

IPVM | 02/22/14 10:29pm

VMS Remote Monitoring Tested

Which version of Milestone are you planning to use?

How much bandwidth do you have remotely? 56Kb/s? 500Kb/s? 5Mb/s?

Undisclosed Integrator #1

In reply to John Honovich | 02/22/14 10:46pm

The current connection can only reach about 750k. We are currently using Milestone Professional 8 but the client is interested in HDSM and if it would benefit them.

Currently we set up 'Off Site' views that mirror his onsite views but are configured in the smart client to have medium or low image quality settings. This works well but really does put a big load on the server. It also prevents the end user from watching uncompressed video off site.

I read the test you referenced as well as most of the threads. I am still unsure if HDSM will be of any benefit. Also, is it true that HDSM only works on Avigilon cameras?

John Honovich

IPVM | In reply to Undisclosed Integrator #1 | 02/22/14 10:50pm

Well, it depends on which version of HDSM.

Version 1 is JPEG2000 only, which would seem to be crazy on other grounds (storage, buying such discontinued cameras, etc.).

Avigilon Version 2 is H.264 multistreaming which should help (using the secondary lower stream). If I recall correctly Milestone Pro / Enterprise editions) do not support multistreaming, so that's definitely a factor.

Alex K

In reply to John Honovich | 02/23/14 04:38pm

HDSM Version 1 (current version) supports

All Avigilon's h.264 and JPEG2000 cameras

ONVIF cameras

John Honovich

IPVM | In reply to Alex K | 02/23/14 05:56pm

H.264 and JPEG2000 cameras are handled completely different (SVC vs H.264), so it's quite misleading to say its the same version.

Alex K

In reply to John Honovich | 02/23/14 06:36pm

HDSM V2 is not even released yet and as of right now is for the new H4 Pro cameras.

Current Version HDSM 1.0 works with ALL Avigilon H.264 and JPEG2000 cameras plus ONVIF cameras

John Honovich

IPVM | In reply to Alex K | 02/23/14 06:39pm

Alex, no more on this. My point is simple - HDSM version "1.0" is made up of 2 radically distinct approaches - JPEG2000 and H.264 multistreaming. Anyone choosing HDSM "1.0" needs to understand the differences in these. Undisclosed is evidently only looking at H.264 so it is not a practical issue. But munging JPEG2000 and H.264 multistreaming in a single 'technology', single 'version' is quite misleading.

Alex K

In reply to John Honovich | 02/23/14 07:23pm

Sorry not trying to argue but this misleading the way you worded it.

"Well, it depends on which version of HDSM.

Version 1 is JPEG2000 only, which would seem to be crazy on other grounds (storage, buying such discontinued cameras, etc.).

Avigilon Version 2 is H.264 multistreaming which should help (using the secondary lower stream). If I recall correctly Milestone Pro / Enterprise editions) do not support multistreaming, so that's definitely a factor."

HDSM V1 Current Version

JPEG2000 = SVC

H.264 = Multible Streams

ONVIF = Multible Streams

All done automaticly depending on avaible bandwidth, screen resolution, and/or matrix view.

HDSM V2 is not released yet.

John Honovich

IPVM | In reply to Alex K | 02/23/14 10:03pm

Alex, I am correcting Avigilon's misleading categorization to lump SVC and H.264 multistreaming into a single 'version'. They are radically different. Also, this is now significantly off topic. All further comments on this will be deleted on this point unless they are from Undisclosed A.

Rukmini Wilson

In reply to John Honovich | 02/25/14 03:04am

H.264 and JPEG2000 cameras are handled completely different (SVC vs H.264)..

John, do you mind clarifying what is your intended association above, i.e., does the 'H.264' in the first part go with the 'SVC' in the second? And in either case has AV actually implemented SVC? Or are you using the term SVC loosely, meaning a SVC-like mechanism? No hard feelings if you need to delete per your edict below, which I just saw.

John Honovich

IPVM | In reply to Rukmini Wilson | 02/25/14 03:56am

JPEG2000 is a scalable video, intra frame only, codec. So, yes, Avigilon has implemented SVC though only via JPEG2000.

H.264 is NOT a scalable video codec, but supports intra AND inter frame compression. For Avigilon, like everyone else in surveillance, 'scaling' the resolution of H.264 requires multiple streams or transcoding.

Rukmini Wilson

In reply to John Honovich | 02/25/14 04:11am

Since they implemented SVC in J2000, why does no one really think that the new HDSM is just their implementation of H.264 SVC? Have they, or their minions denied this outright? Pethaps the only reason that AV has drug its feet so long on deprecating J2000 is that they needed to have the H.264 SVC functionality in place first.

NOTICE: This comment has been moved to its own discussion: Is Avigilon Implementing H.264 SVC?

Undisclosed Integrator #1

02/22/14 11:24pm

The latest version of X-Protect Pro does do multistreaming. It still does limit the end user to a low res stream that can not be digitally zoomed. I guess in that respect Avigilon is better. Well that is if I understand it correctly. If Milestone is sending a 320x240 stream in a tiled view of multiple cameras, is Avigilon sending the same when viewing a tiled view?

John Honovich

IPVM | In reply to Undisclosed Integrator #1 | 02/22/14 11:29pm

Yes, the standard practice is to send the low res streams when multiple videos are displayed (2 x 2, 3 x 3, etc.).

btw, the Milestone Jan 2014 comparison chart indicates that multi live streaming is only available for Corporate (chart, page 6). There is an option for other versions for "Client video stream down sampling (resolution and FPS)"

Undisclosed Integrator #1

In reply to John Honovich | 02/22/14 11:55pm

Regarding the chart, I am guessing that the 'Client video stream down sampling (resolution and FPS) option' refers to setting the compression level in each tile from within the smart client setup, which puts a heavy load on the server.

The Multi-Live Streaming is only available in Corporate. I am not clear how this is best used in practice.

The 'Dual stream (live and recording) per camera' option allows you to set a dedicated live stream from with the management app. If the camera supports two streams you can set one at a much lower res for live viewing only. When logging into the smart client this dedicated live stream will be the only one that is available for that camera in live view. This is good because it takes the load off of the server (unlike option 1) but bad because it does not allow you to see in full resolution unless you go into playback mode.

Undisclosed Integrator #2

02/25/14 08:44pm

I hate to sound biased, but can't we all find issues or claims of the opposing vendors claims and cry foul or claim a marketing statement is "Misleading". Last I knew "XProtect" is simply a registered trademark of Milestone and has no technical bearing of the technology and protocols for which they are claiming. I'm not bashing, just saying if something works, call it whatever the marketing team decides. These forums are supposed to be educational, and informative and the undertones are annoying.

So for the private post....

NOTICE: This comment has been moved to its own discussion: Is It Misleading For Milestone To Call Their VMS 'Xprotect'?

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