Subscriber Discussion

Lower Cost Way To Control IP PTZ From Analog Matrix Switcher?

U
Undisclosed #1
Feb 09, 2018

Have a project where the customer has 120 analog cameras run into a Vicon video matrix switcher installed around 2001. They need to add about 20 IP cameras with 5 of these having PTZ from the console using the matrix switch.  My first thought was to buy cameras with BOTH analog and IP outputs (such as Bosch). Now the customer insists on Axis cameras.... ok by me but I wish i had known about this earlier.  

So put in a decoder to get the analog. How do i get the PTZ controls back to the IP camera? Is there a less costly way to do this?

 

 

 

UI
Undisclosed Integrator #2
Feb 09, 2018

Worked on a project almost exactly the same as this a few months back.  Here's what I did:

1. Put in a VMS server

2. Encoded all of the analog cameras.  Since there was a mix of up the coax control we needed some of the higher end Axis encoders.

3. Put in the new Axis cameras as requested.

Trying to bring IP cameras into an analog system is a lot harder than bringing analog cameras into IP.  There is also greatly diminished resolution from the IP cameras being degraded to analog.

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U
Undisclosed #1
Feb 09, 2018

I am considering this solution, but the owner does not have the bucks. Did you run the numbers for the options you proposed?

UI
Undisclosed Integrator #2
Feb 13, 2018

I did not run the numbers for comparison.  The IP to analog backwards conversion is not something we would have on our radar as an option.

Avatar
Brian Karas
Feb 09, 2018
Pelican Zero

They need to add about 20 IP cameras 

Is this a customer requirement for IP, and if so, what is the driver behind it? Or, are you assuming the cameras need to be IP because that is what is predominantly available these days?

 

U
Undisclosed #1
Feb 14, 2018

The customer knows he will have to upgrade (more sooner than later); but there is not the $400K to up grade now to IP.  The customer one of a number of stakeholders. The Owner has a number of buildings all over the city presently being monitored (or recorded) by the Genetic VMS (over 1000 IP cams). 

AB
Alexander Bakke
Feb 09, 2018

If the customer is willing to go with Bosch MIC IP cameras instead of Axis, you can use this solution.

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U
Undisclosed #1
Feb 10, 2018

It proves that great minds think alike. My Bosh guy says this solution will work with the Autodome as well (is he right?)and that is what I was planning for the job. But Axis is the standard and  i must stick with it. 

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JH
John Honovich
Feb 12, 2018
IPVM

#1, I ran this past Axis. They said they would need some more system specifics to offer advice / recommendations. They recommended contacting them. If we can help, let us know.

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U
Undisclosed #1
Feb 09, 2018

The goal is to convert this building to total IP, and tie these cameras into an existing enterprise level VMS.   Corporate has mandated Axis, no subs which is the reason i now have to redesign. 

Avatar
Scott Bradford
Feb 09, 2018
IPVMU Certified

What is the back end VMS that you're trying to tie into?

 

So you are cost limited in moving to IP, which is why you're trying to keep it all as an analog system?

U
Undisclosed #1
Feb 09, 2018

Genetic is the VMS. The new cameras will present at the security console in analog form controlled by an existing Vicon Nova matrix switch. the IP streams will be connected to Genetec  New workstations for guard desks and administrators will run as Genetec clients and they do not need access to the remaining 150 cameras in the building. 

CD
Chalon Dilber
Feb 13, 2018

Whichever combination of manufacturer/decoder you propose, I would definitely inform the customer ahead of time that the operators on the matrix will experience noticeable latency in video and PTZ response compared to their existing analog PTZs. 

Definitely don't want the customer to complain or hold you responsible for the difference in performance (i.e. the laws of physics.)  Good luck and curious to hear what solution you choose and how it turns out!

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U
Undisclosed #1
Feb 14, 2018

Whichever combination of manufacturer/decoder you propose, I would definitely inform the customer ahead of time that the operators on the matrix will experience noticeable latency in video and PTZ response compared to their existing analog PTZ

Very good point . Did not consider this as an issue. Anyone else had this problem.? 

Avatar
Regis Glorieux
Feb 14, 2018
IPX360 Solutions

[Disclaimer: we rep and support 360 Vision Technology in US and Canada]

We’re finding there are still a lot of these lecacy matrixes and control systems out there with many reasons why the end users want to keep them operating. This is particularly applicable in oil/gas, mining and heavy industrial where the latency-free control of PTZ cameras and truly live video output outweigh the benefits of higher resolution IP cameras  For these reasons, we still have demand for analog cameras.

Our partner 360 Vision has developped a hybrid PTZ solution precisely with these applications in mind. The hybrid is a full HD IP camera compatible with Genetec and other VMS with built-in RS485 for integration and latency-free PTZ control via legacy switches or matrixes plus a BNC analog out for a local spot monitor  No external encoder/decoder or equipment required. If customer eventually mothballs the matrix and goes fully IP, they still have a fully functionnal HD ONVIF PTz camera

Here are specs on 2 variations of hybrid PTZ currently available:

CENTURION Rugged Hybrid PTZ 

PREDATOR Ultra-Rugged Hybrid PTZ perfect for oil/gas, mining and heavy industrial applications -  (also available in anti-corrosive stainless steel)

Feel free to contact us if you have questions or require any additional info

IPX360 Solutions

866-790-4777

IPX360solutions.com

Avatar
Jeffrey Hinckley
Feb 14, 2018

First, I would not invest in any product to integrate into a 17 year old matrix.  inform the customer this must be retired.  I bet they have some burned in CRT monitors.

Encode the existing fixed cameras with M7016 encoders (1000 bucks each).  I assume the existing PTZ analog use UTP (not up the coax control).  The axis encoders should support this.  If not, Axis has some more expensive encoders with up the coax control.

Having Genetec already with base license is good.   With 120 analog and 20 new IP PTZ cameras, probably need a new server, unless VM/SAN based.

Get a i7 workstation with Quad card.  Two large screens 64 cameras each and two drop downs with a axis keyboard.

To start cheaper, get the server that will eventually be needed, but add video card.  Add Axis joystck or monitor rs485 bus from vicon for control of the genetec server/workstation to PTZ.  Will probably be latency.  Will display the 20 PTZ cameras on maybe a dual monitor setup.  Call Genetec to see if Vicon control can be implemented/relayed.  I believe Axis may have wired rs-485 which will need extra network UTP to camera.  Will not make sense if the ip cameras go to remote it closets.

I would bet the matrix works with some multiplexors to view 4x4 video, but with this many cameras, I am sure they only show a fraction live.  I also bet that they are not recording all 120 cameras, so a full upgrade may be a sell from this to fully migrate to ip/pc control.

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UM
Undisclosed Manufacturer #3
Feb 14, 2018

(Hanwha employee)

All Hanwha PTZ cameras have 1) analog video output via connector & 2) RS-485 interface.  This allows you to easily connect it to an existing matrix and control it as if it were an analog PTZ.

Down the road, upgrade to full IP system, and you are ready to use the HD video & IP controls.

One thing to watch out for is that most cameras are 16:9, but the analog output in most cases is 4:3, so your FoV will change a little and cut off some of the image when viewing the analog output.

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