Subscriber Discussion

If A Manufacturer Gives You A Lead, How Loyal Do You Remain To That Manufacturer For That Opportunity?

UI
Undisclosed Integrator #1
Feb 13, 2018

If a manufacturer gives you a lead, how loyal do you remain to that manufacturer for that opportunity?

 

I have had 2 leads and stayed loyal to the manufacturer. We didn't close either deal because it was like selling trying to sell a Rolls Royce to someone with a Chevy budget.

 

Do you at some point do you say, they are never going to buy this, let's suggest something they can afford?

 

 

(1)
JH
John Honovich
Feb 13, 2018
IPVM

Good topic!

Question - does that manufacturer have any lower cost offering?

Structurally, I would think 1 of 2 things are taking place (generally, since I don't know the specifics here) - the manufacturer is not properly qualifying the lead or you're not selling the value of what the manufacturer is offering.

Avatar
Sean Nelson
Feb 13, 2018
Nelly's Security

Id say ethically you should always stay with that manufacturer if they gave you the lead. Sure you could undercut them and use another manufacturer but you would have never had the lead in the first place had it been for the original lead generating manufacturer so stay loyal even if it means losing the customer.

Personally, if I were to give a lead to one of our integrator customers and I found out they used another supplier for that lead I gave them, I would never give that customer a lead again. If it was a very large lead, I may never really want to do business with that customer again either. 

Honestly, I think its shady if this happens.

(3)
Avatar
Ethan Ace
Feb 13, 2018

I always tried to keep at least SOMETHING with the originating company. I got more leads from reps and distributors than manufacturers, so if it came from a rep and one of their lines worked but another didn't, I'd at least use some cameras, but a different VMS or vice versa. Use their other lines where possible.

But for a manufacturer, that's a different story as they generally are limited in what they offer. I'd try to do whatever I could, but ultimately it's a waste of everyone's time to keep sending leads.

Honestly, if they keep giving you Rolls Royce leads for Chevy opportunities, I'd have a conversation with them about it. Sometimes they just send leads out as a service to you to keep you close and they aren't expecting every single job will be theirs.

(2)
U
Undisclosed #2
Feb 13, 2018

100% loyalty to the manufacturer. Period. I would never even consider an alternate product in a scenario where I was given a lead, regardless of whether I could win it or not.

(3)
(1)
(1)
Avatar
Ethan Ace
Feb 13, 2018

But if you knew you couldn't win it, would you spend the time to quote it/follow up on it/etc.? Curious question.

CS
Carl Schroeder
Feb 13, 2018

Any lead given to you by a manufacturer requires you to sell their product with no exceptions.  It would be unethical to do otherwise and if they found out I doubt you would be given any more.  They should qualify the customer before they waste everybody's time but a lead is a lead.  It's up to the salesman to work within their budget and set some reasonable expectations based on it.  

 

UM
Undisclosed Manufacturer #3
Feb 13, 2018

In this case, I think it's fair for you to clearly understand the quality of the lead provided.  If it's a blind lead from a generic bid source, I think you have some latitude in your approach when you dig into the opportunity.  It's important to be upfront to the manufacturer if you don't intend to bid their solution for any reason.

If the manufacturer has a working relationship with the end user, than complete loyalty should be given to the manufacturer who provided the lead.

Bottom line...loyalty should be provided when the lead has real value.  Otherwise, future leads from this manufacturer and others may become few and far between.  Unqualified leads are often a waste of everyone's time and money.

(2)
Avatar
Brian Karas
Feb 13, 2018
Pelican Zero

I think you should make every reasonable effort to close the lead with the manufacturer that referred you.  This would include involving their field sales people in demos, designs, etc.

You should have a feel for how the customer is leaning before they actually make a decision. If the feedback is that the lead manufacturers system is too expensive, take that feedback to the manufacturer and give them an opportunity to decide if they want to offer a discount to win the deal.

Assuming all of the above fails to get you to the point where you are closing the deal with that manufacturer, it would be reasonable to offer an alternative/cheaper system to try and win the deal. You have time invested here too, and deserve an opportunity to recoup the time and resources you have invested into the sales process.

If you (the generic "you") are not losing some deals, you are not involved in enough opportunities and are not pushing yourselves. A manufacturer should not get out of shape if some of the leads do not close in their favor. If this is an ongoing issue (and 2 instances is not "data", it is anecdotal at best) then you and the manufacturer will need to determine if their leads are in the wrong class of customer, or if your ability to close higher level business and sell the value of their solution is lacking.

(2)
Avatar
Dori Ribak
Feb 13, 2018
RBtec Perimeter Security Systems

I understand your position and as a manufacturer i would have expected someone like you to come to me and say something like this:

"Thank you for the lead we have talked with the customer and it's out of their budget can you do a discount or do you have another product you can offer? or is there anything we can do to make this work?"

If you have made an honest and open conversation with that manufacturer and he cannot assist you then i would say sure offer them something else but don't do it under the table.

(7)
UI
Undisclosed Integrator #4
Feb 13, 2018

There was an opportunity 2 years ago where a VMS manufacturer gave me a lead (Distributor).  I gave out the lead to one of our best integrators in that state, but this integrator was unfamiliar with 360 camera technologies at that time.  So I gave the rsm for the camera manufacturer the lead to go tag team a large size warehouse project.  I gave the rsm plenty of knowledge about the opportunity and specifically mentioned many times the lead originated from a VMS manufacturer.

This rsm started pushing a different VMS when he got onsite to the end user and the integrator.  I was disgusted when I found out.  I confronted him about it and he said, "Well, I wanted to provide the best solution."  I laughed in his face at the VMS he wanted to use as it was not superior at all.  He just wanted to help his favorite Rep house that had a different VMS line.  I berated him continuously and asked him if he gave me a lead and I then proposed a different camera manufacturer because it was better would it be ok?  He had no answer.

What a POS.

I blame myself for not repeating it 3,000 times this lead shall use no other VMS.  I blame myself for not vetting the pos rsm more.  As this was in another state, I could not make the trip to be onsite and protect the original VMS.

Sales is a tricky, snakey slope.  So many people out there you cannot trust. 

If you're going to propose a different manufacturer, exhaust all efforts first for the originator.  Do tons of communication with the manufacturer.  Have some integrity and a backbone.  Show the originator your efforts.  Be willing to lose some to gain more.

 

 

(4)
UI
Undisclosed Integrator #1
Feb 13, 2018

This is not switching similar products. 

 

The lead was from a VMS we work with. They had some conversations and demo and the lead was given to me. But when they found out they were going to have to buy camera licenses, they flat out said, that's not an option. Of course, the VMS is better than a Hik or Dahua, but that is all they needed.

 

I did keep with the VMS but pretty sure we stand zero chance of any sale now.

 

 

This happened a while back, I got a lead from a higher end camera company, for an opportunity in a gas station/convenience store. He already had a system but was unhappy and he wanted a new system. The system he had was a decent system, just not current. So I knew he wasn't looking for a Costco special. Again we stayed with the original manufacturer instead of pitching a better value. Eventually, I got ghosted with no response.

 

 

UI
Undisclosed Integrator #5
Feb 14, 2018

Yes, some people abhor licenses, even if it is essentially just baked into the cost of the NVR.  There are development costs getting paid for somewhere.  It was even more challenging when a software maintenance agreement was involved.

U
Undisclosed #6
Feb 14, 2018

But when they found out they were going to have to buy camera licenses, they flat out said, that's not an option. Of course, the VMS is better than a Hik or Dahua, but that is all they needed.

Sell the value of the VMS. Are you certain that's all they 'needed'? Is there nothing in the VMS that would justify the premium of few hundred or thousand dollars over the course of the user using it for 5 years?

CS
Carl Schroeder
Feb 13, 2018

It is pretty easy to pre-qualify people like this over the phone before leaving the office or spending any time on them.  After a short conversation you should have an idea of the scope of work.  Give them some round numbers and feel them out.  It will save you a trip and you'll know if you have a live one or not.  If they had something else in mind entirely call the rep back and discuss your findings.  They most likely will feel sorry they wasted your time and sent you a dead one and give you the green light to find them a different solution.

UI
Undisclosed Integrator #5
Feb 14, 2018

That is definitely a tough situation.  Manufacturers have rarely brought us leads so I have limited examples of a success story.  If they bring us that lead I would remain fiercely simply because to do otherwise would breed contempt.  However, I have swapped in some key items that manufacturers priced in to pad their bottom line.  

As an example let’s say a manufacturer specified their own UTP or Coax range extenders.  I would gladly pull those out for a less expensive, tested brand.  The same holds true of any of the components of the system - I view it as value engineering out sales padding.

To me, bringing them part of a closed sale is better than squandering both our times on a loser.

TP
Todd Pulver
Feb 14, 2018

All is fair in love and sales, right? At the end of the day I feel that we are all loyal to our bottom line. I feel that upfront/open communication between the integrator and manufacturer is key to relationships and success in all sales matters, but am confused by some of the responses.  If I call ahead and find out the solution the manufacturer offers is not in line with the expectations or requirements of the prospect should I write the opportunity completely off (this is assuming that I have an offering that would be appropriate) or should I call the manufacturer and advise them on how I read the opportunity? Do we together go down a rabbit hole of quoting and designing for what we vet as a losing proposition or is it wrong for me to try to get a win?

I also see manufacturer responses that they would never send another lead if the integrator changed solutions (which ethically need to be communicated or not sure how you sleep at night). What about if you (manufacturer) where brought into an opportunity by an integrator and the prospect contacted you and said "you know what I love your product, it is what I need but I want 2 other bidders and make sure they are closer to my location" (or nicer, or better looking....)?  Are you fiercely loyal to that integrator and telling the prospect you will not provide additional resellers?  I think not.

Next question, are you compelled to communicate that situation? If this happened and you did not communicate it (as fact is you are definitely providing additional integrator contacts) are you more empowered knowing that the integrator is not going to drop your line (as you are probably 1 of 4 they carry) as easily as you will cut them off from leads (since they may be 1 of 100)?

Not trying to be confrontational, just realistic. If you are willing to give leads to an integrator then you more than likely believe they will be open and honest with you just as integrator must have the same trust and understanding with the manufacturer. I think to castigate someone for weighing a decision that could have the black and red impact of profit vs loss in a non black and white situation is a business relationship train wreck. 

(1)
(2)
UM
Undisclosed Manufacturer #7
Feb 15, 2018

"you know what I love your product, it is what I need but I want 2 other bidders and make sure they are closer to my location"

Any manufacturer worth their salt will give the first integrator a substantial registration discount. 

UM
Undisclosed Manufacturer #7
Feb 15, 2018

As a manufacturer, if you flip me on a project I brought you in to, you should probably start looking for another manufacturer to work with.  I will not send you another deal.  If I'm bringing you a project, it is very likely that you are the only partner that I'm bringing.  I know you, and I trust you.  I've been putting this project together for months, and you get the opportunity to come in and make money on my work.  Don't betray that. 

I had a very good partner lose a very nice $500k deal because they were loyal to me.  We both knew we were underdogs.  He could have flipped me, but he didn't.  I have brought them over $15m worth of deals since them. 

(1)
UI
Undisclosed Integrator #8
Feb 15, 2018

I would take the lead, qualify it and see if it's a good fit for the manufacturer that sent it to me. If it wasn't, I would have an open conversation with the manufacturer and if after learning the details they still wanted to take a run at it together, I would partner with them and hope for the best. Anything less than that is bad business in my opinion.

(1)
Avatar
Daniel S-T
Feb 16, 2018

I feel like if they keep giving you leads, but you keep losing maybe it's worth a conversation with them. Like hey I appreciate you trusting me and giving me these leads, but we need to do something here if we want to win. Higher discounts from Manufacturer, or maybe substituting parts of the job.

Avatar
Chris Anderson
Feb 16, 2018

To me this is as much about relationships as it is the company.  I think this really depends specifically on your relationship the sales team at the MFR. Some will be amenable and reasonable if there has been every effort made to close with their products but it just isn't the right fit.  Others will, no matter what you do feel like you are trying to flip their customers to other products and damage your chances of future business.  

While this is a generalization, it's just my opinion: seems like those MFRs who are more comfortable and mature in the marketplace are likely to be of the former variety.  Those that are in startup phase or starting to fail generally end up being the latter in my experience

UI
Undisclosed Integrator #9
Feb 16, 2018

Sometimes we provide leads that come from the web and are not qualified.  Those should be qualified and at times dealers will just reject them.  No harm, no foul. 

Sometimes we hand over leads we have worked, with a full background.  Switch that one and we are done. 

Sometimes leads don’t have a long business impact and a dealer will state we are the wrong fit and ask what we want done.  I will respond with “make the sale”.  They will remember who gave them business. 

The best advice is ask the person who gave you the lead. 

UM
Undisclosed Manufacturer #10
Feb 16, 2018

One recurring theme through this thread - communication. I would add engagement. As a manufacturer, if I have a lead, I qualify it and engage the most appropriate partner based on factors such as location, vertical, complexity, etc. At that point, the lead is further qualified, designed and presented together with the partner. I do not hand off a lead to a partner and leave it. If I see through our engagement together with the end user that our solution is not appropriate, I tell both the partner and the end user right then and there that they need an alternate product and release the partner to do what it takes to win the business. Sometimes this happens as early as the qualification stage. This eliminates the situation posed at the top of the post altogether. 

(2)
Avatar
Daniel S-T
Feb 16, 2018

"If I see through our engagement together with the end user that our solution is not appropriate, I tell both the partner and the end user right then and there that they need an alternate product and release the partner to do what it takes to win the business."

 

I feel like a lot of Manufacturer reps do not feel the same way, as I have been involved with some who will just continue to push their product when it is really not the right product.

I am not saying I disagree with you, I think that's a very good mentality to have, but I feel like it's a rare one.

UM
Undisclosed Manufacturer #11
Feb 16, 2018

If i send a qualified lead to someone and they use another product, that’s the last lead I’m sending to that customer. 

UI
Undisclosed Integrator #1
Feb 17, 2018

I agree the key is communication.

 

The VMS provider did a web demo to a client who already purchased 2 licenses. They mistakenly thought each license would support 25 cameras. Somehow they did not understand this with their conversation with the VMS. Once I was brought in and explained that the online retailer made a mistake, and they would have to buy 28 more licenses, they were not happy.

 

Not sure how I could spin that or make it better.

 

The customer had already bought a couple Hik cameras online, and planned on doing the install them self with in-house maintenance staff. This was not a really qualified lead to begin with.

 

My time invested was a 20-minute phone call and double checking some license part #'s so not a huge project nor time invested. I was just hoping to make something out of it.

Avatar
Armando Perez
Feb 19, 2018
Hoosier Security and Security Owners Group • IPVMU Certified

We have had situations where the manufacturer that sent us the lead didn't have the right product for the client. In those cases, we seek permission to suggest a part of the project from a different manufacturer. Sometimes this leads us to a aolution we werent aware of, sometimes it allows us to save part of the project for them, sometimes it goes another way entirely, but it ALWAYS establishes trust and reapect with the manufacturer. We would never dream of doing it without clearing it first, that's just a dick move. I would never expect another lead if we did that.

 

Sometimes clearing it requires a frank conversation about pricing and the lead's budget. Those get interesting. When presented with all the facts, ive never had a manufacturer demand we lose a sale to prove our appreciation, often times they bend over backwards to make sure we don't lose a sale. I think our relationships with vendors and manufacturers are better than most tho.

(2)
New discussion

Ask questions and get answers to your physical security questions from IPVM team members and fellow subscribers.

Newest discussions