Subscriber Discussion

Low Price, Stable, Unmanaged 24-Port POE Switch

UD
Undisclosed Distributor #1
Jun 17, 2016

Hello!

Can somebody recommend low price, stable working 24-port unmanaged POE switch (100Mbit/Gigabit)?

Good quality/price option is Netgear GS728TP-100EUS or FS728TP-100EUS (depending from network requirements), perhaps there is something with lower price what You could recommend? Looks that Trendnet has higher price for similar models.

EU market.

Thank You!

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Avatar
Jon Dillabaugh
Jun 17, 2016
Pro Focus LLC

Netgear are usually very stable. I've had one die quickly after install. They overnighted me the replacement and an RS label for the return. New unit has worked so far.

I'm not sure if they offer the same next day warranty in the EU. It is a great selling point here in the US.

That said, is there a reason for not wanting a managed or smart switch? I'm not sure anyone makes an PoE dumb switch that would be reliable and cheap.

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MC
Margarita Castillo
Jun 17, 2016
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UM
Undisclosed Manufacturer #2
Jun 17, 2016

I just purchased one of these, but haven't tried it out yet. Spec's look great and had everything I need. Good price as well.

Netgear Prosafe GS728TPP 24-Port Gigabit PoE+ Smart Managed Switch 384W

UI
Undisclosed Integrator #3
Jun 18, 2016

Believe it or not I have probably a thousand cameras out there running on Trendnet POE switches. I have loaded them up and linked more than one together and never had to replace one. I have one site almost 200 cameras, not a hiccup.....yet and it's been years. I have been back to sites I installed 5 years ago and they are still chugging away. I almost expected some of them to die. The Netgear switch is probably a better option. We have used a bunch of them too with the same result but they cost a couple bucks more.

UD
Undisclosed Distributor #1
Jun 18, 2016

Interesting, because alternatives from Trendnet for Netgear GS728TP-100EUS and FS728TP-100EUS was more expensive in general, at least from my information.

MC
Marty Calhoun
Jun 18, 2016
IPVMU Certified

Try the DLINK Commercial DGS-121028P, we have had excellent results after several failures with the Netgear 728tp.

Better cost if you area volume buyer as opposed to the Netgear.

Avatar
David Warren
Jun 19, 2016
Security Network Advisors LLC

Full disclosure, this is my company so my advice is defiantly bias. When I was a rep, I would constantly hear guys complain about switch failures and reliability. When I did research, almost always this was due to the fan going out and then the inside frying. I set out on a mission to design a switch with the highest grade (and lowest sound) fan I could.

Also, while doing research, all my customers asked for an easy way to see how much power budget was left on their switch once they started plugging things in. Prior, you had to move to managed switches or bring out your tools to measure your power usage and do some math. This made the job go so much faster.

Not sure if our friends at IPVM would like to test it? We've been running field tests with this for about 15 months and decided to do a full product launch this coming week. Website was basically taken down and is being launched with the full line in 3-4 more days...8-Port Unmanaged LED switch

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U
Undisclosed #4
Jun 19, 2016

Survey says 54% would find such a display useful:

Related: Is This Useful? Fanless Switch With Built-In Power Consumption Display?

jw
jim warner
Jun 20, 2016

A single switch, wall mounted with lots of exposed surface area can be convection-cooled without a fan. But rack mount switches designed to be racked cheek to butt in a tight stack need to force air through the switch front-to-back (or the other way 'round) and so they need fans.

We only use managed switches for cameras, and we don't use power injectors for new installs because sometimes we want to power-cycle the stuff and, without SNMP, the only way to do that is to visit the site. And, of course, another use for network management is to monitor the fan.

-jim

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NP
Neil Patel
Jun 20, 2016

Jim

Convection-cooled switches tend to be normal switches. PoE switches normally always have fans due to thermodynamic issues. Managed switches may prove to be too costly but a Smart or web managed switch will be the most cost effective solution since you should be able to enter the UI and reboot the device remotely or using a network management application.

jw
jim warner
Jun 20, 2016

Neil

It simply is not true that PoE switches always have fans. Look at the Cisco 3560-CX and 2960-CX.

http://www.cisco.com/c/en/us/products/switches/campus-lan-switches-compact/index.html

I probably wasn't clear. I'm not so interested in rebooting the SWITCH as I am in cycling the power on the PoE device that is attached to the switch.

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NP
Neil Patel
Jun 21, 2016

Jim

The switches may nnot use fans but this feature comes has significant price. These switches cost more than $1000 and have functionality which is 90% of instances a typical integrator will not use.

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Jon Dillabaugh
Jun 20, 2016
Pro Focus LLC

Ubiquiti also makes some managed PoE switches without fans. They aren't all rack switches, but they do exist.

I do have a general question about what makes a switch a managed switch versus a smart, web, plus, what-ever-they-call-it switch? Is it CLI? Is it a certain set of features? Is it a marketing term with little meaning. The line between smart and managed is blurry for me.

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U
Undisclosed #6
Jun 20, 2016
IPVMU Certified

IMHO, smart switches lack at a minimum:

  1. CLI
  2. SNMP
  3. Telnet Access

I've heard they don't support various other features that managed switches do, but I've never compared them. Of the ones I have used at least,(Netgear), allow remote POE cycling.

And who are we kidding, that's all we really want, right? ;)

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Jon Dillabaugh
Jun 20, 2016
Pro Focus LLC

Yep. I'm not a CLI guy, need a GUI to be efficient. I don't program switches all day for a living, so the syntax isn't hard wired for me.

SNMP is nice when you are having issues and want to keep tabs on traffic and things. Normally not used though.

Telnet access would fit in the CLI category for me. I can use it, but GUI is easier and more efficient for me.

A major reason I like Netgear is the next business day lifetime warranty, decent GUI, and usually very reliable. I've had one die a quick death a few days after install and was very pleased that the RMA process was a breeze and the new switch arrived the next morning. Crisis averted.

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jw
jim warner
Jun 21, 2016

In addition to power cycling

  • The ability to label ports with location info
  • Last time link status on the port changed
  • Last time the switch restarted (AC power event)
  • ifInOctets -- to determine the camera's data rate

We don't use web management, but I'll bet it would be just fine for small networks. Telnet / ssh access to a Command Line Interface is useful to get SNMP configured, but it's a hard way to manage anything.

NP
Neil Patel
Jun 21, 2016

Typically switches fall into three categories unmanaged, smart and managed, each adds an extra level of functionality and complexity as you move up the food chain.

Unmanaged Switches are the simplest way to build a network and let it pretty much run itself. They are designed to enable plug-and-play connectivity, which makes them perfect for small businesses which don't have complex networks or dedicated IT department that manage their network or have a requirement for simple network connectivity like to share resources. These typically have no network management capabilities - CLI or Web management.

Managed switches allow network administrators to monitor and shape traffic across the network, introducing redundancy and access control. Typically managed switches are deployed in networks with a large number of users or devices; and/or company's using bandwidth-hungry applications, where performance and reliability need to be maximised and security enforced. These switches always have a CLI and Web management.

Smart or web-managed switches have many of the benefits of Managed, as outlined above but without the complexity or cost. Smart switches are designed to provide easy configuration through a web management GUI. Ideal for users wishing to build small- to medium-size networks but who don’t need all the advanced features necessary for large-scale corporate deployments. Some higher-end Smart Switches also incorporate a subset of Managed switch capabilities such as a CLI, centralised management, stacking or some limited Layer 3 functionality like static routing allowing for scalable network design. D-Link's products support some unique features such as Auto Voice and Auto Surveillance VLANs to prioritise traffic from VoIP phones and IP cameras in the network.

It is important to bear in mind that unmanaged switches are the cheapest switches to deploy if you dont need network bandwidth management. This is typically where the Trendnet products sit. Managed switches have a lot of capabilities to manage and control the network traffic. We have seen the Smart switches replacing unmanaged switches in the Surveillance market here in Europe due to the price/performance of the devices.

UI
Undisclosed Integrator #5
Jun 20, 2016

Interesting...will these switches have a similar feature to Planet's "PD Alive Check" by chance? That's been a big help to us since they were implemented.

NP
Neil Patel
Jun 21, 2016

Hi David,

The D-Link switches like most mainstream network vendors don't have a function like Planet's PD Alive check. Primarily because in may cause problems in DHCP environment or in some environments because a constant ping may be misinterpreted as a Ping of death (ICMP Flood) network attack. This type of flood attacks are addressed are normally addressed using silicon built into the switch or a third party software. If the sensitivity to this type of attack is set too low then you could end up with the switch being "shut down" or isolated so it doesn't effect the rest of the network. If you use these switches to build a completely separate network for your video traffic then this becomes a moot point, however if this is being in one network it is something to bear in mind.

Equally, I can see the benefit of such a feature but with a bit of refinement it would be a nice feature to have.

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NP
Neil Patel
Jun 20, 2016

Full disclosure:  I work for D-Link and am responsible for business development in Europe for our IP Surveillance portfolio including our camera and PoE Switch range.

Selecting a PoE switch can be a minefield because what is often overlooked is the PoE budget (which is the amount of Power they can provide to the ports) of the switch.  People assume that all PoE switches provide the same power level through all the POE ports, but often that is not case.  Equally cameras that are connected to the switch also draw different power levels, with things like heaters and blowers requiring higher levels of power.  All this puts a strain on PSU in the switch, and this is where vendors tend to compromise to reduce costs.  So it is critical that you sum up the Power Consumption of all the cameras in the network, and then make a selection as to which switch you need.  Lower cost switches have lower PoE Budgets so thus can lead to failures or even cameras dropping off because sufficient power is not being provided to the PoE Ports. 

D-Link recently introduced some new switches aimed specifically at this market segment, in both Fast and Gigabit Ethernet.  The DES-1018P/MP (FE) (246W of PoE Power) and the DGS-1026MP (GE) (370W of PoE Power).  These three switches are unmanaged specifically designed to provide power and network connectivity with uplink ports.  

Also D-Link recently introduced a set of more intelligent switches the DGS-1100-10MP and 26MP which are Onvif compliant so provide more information about the devices connected to which might prove useful for some installers.

Even if you dont look at our switches, it is important that you consider the PoE budget since this will be the root cause of most switch failures and a vulnerability that surveillance systems dont need.

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UI
Undisclosed Integrator #7
Jun 21, 2016

We've had great success with Xyxel ZyXEL GS1920-24HP 24 Port GbE L2 Advanced Web Managed Switch. I know it is Web managed and you asked but it is very low cost so the Web management could be a bonus. Solid performance and reliability.

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