Subscriber Discussion

Looking For Wi-Fi Camera Solution

DC
Dwayne Cormier
Jan 11, 2019

Hello All,

Have a client that has out stretched property. Has a need for a camera at driveway gate which happens to be about 1000ft from the house. Some trees but fairly flat line of sight. He got a cellular trail cam and having quality and consistency issues. Researching cellular cameras and most are a money pit for usage when camera will be in an outdoor environment. Most reviews of Wi-Fi cameras are not favorable along with most need to transmit back to a base which is also limited on range. Location of camera has no power so needs to be battery as well. I can boost the Wi-Fi range, just looking for a camera that will work without close distance base and possibly pick up through network to DVR

BP
Bas Poiesz
Jan 11, 2019

I would advise against WiFi unless it's home use for a tech savvy end user.
There are so many variables and they all change after you leave, you could end up going back over and over.

In case of no LAN I would use a powerline (also not perfect but it beats WiFi).
There are nice options out there, powerline with PoE and things like that.

DC
Dwayne Cormier
Jan 11, 2019

yes Jonathan. Not my ideal choice as well. There is nothing available at location of camera install, not even a conduit. So its cellular or Wi-Fi on battery or solar. It is for a residence and sort of tech savvy. Just looking for something better than a trail cam. :)

BP
Bas Poiesz
Jan 11, 2019

Now that I think about it, Netgear Arlo is probably one of the best options.

In our market there is no margin for installers or resellers, so maybe directing him to Arlo online is the best advise you can give him. The cams last about 6months on batteries and he can change them himself. It's a pretty nice system, too bad it's hard to make money on it.

DC
Dwayne Cormier
Jan 11, 2019

This client is a security customer. And I like to go the extra mile for clients whether or not I make money from that one particular product. However Arlo goes to a base which max range is 300 ft. Cellular eats of data for what they charge.

Avatar
Chris Anderson
Jan 11, 2019

Hello Dwayne

Look at Tycon systems for a solar package that could support your requirements. Put in two small DC PoE units for the passive PoE required for PtP and PoE (or 12VDC) for the camera.  Pick a low consumption camera from axis or similar. Tie to a Ubiquiti loco M5 point to point link from the remote site to your NVR. 

My company builds these things turnkey if you are interested in having someone else take care of the control / power systems.

Thanks

Chris

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HG
Haden Gragson
Jan 15, 2019

I second Chris on Tycon. We have been using one of their systems for over 2 years and have had ZERO issues.We are also using the Ubiquiti P2P.

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UM
Undisclosed Manufacturer #1
Jan 12, 2019

You might consider a standard good quality IP camera with the sensitivity your site requires, and take advantage of the line-of-site availability and use a low cost network transmission system such as provided by Comnet.  American-made, secure and available everywhere.

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Avatar
David Warren
Jan 13, 2019
Security Network Advisors LLC

 Without reading the other comments, my first thought is to run.   I think most of us who’ve been doing this for 20+ years have tried similar applications and realistically I’ve never heard of a successful installation without using enterprise Expensive custom gear.  And the government seems to be the only one willing to buy that type a solution.

 

But… That’s based on traditional security and surveillance technology. With the introduction LoRaWAN, Raspberry Pi boards and multiple new hat stacks, special  IoT  Cellular plans, there’s several new products on the market that could accomplish what you’re looking for. 

  The coolest part this new world of integration is modularity  and allowing integrators to manufacture their own solutions at a very low cost.  I won’t even get into the benefits of data collection, H storage/analytics and reoccurring revenue potential.

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DC
Dwayne Cormier
Jan 14, 2019

As all companies look for RMR is a big part of stability and growth. Problem is i don't get a chance to explore advances of technology as the market and region I'm in dictates that. Sooner or later my area will catch up to only be behind again. :)

GB
George Bentinck
Jan 14, 2019

Disclosure - I work for Cisco Meraki

Without careful engineering and the use of directional antennas it is going to be difficult to deploy a wireless camera solution that can connect at a 1000'. If the camera doesn't have line of site to it's gateway, this becomes even more of a challenge.

The Meraki MV72 has built in 802.11ac wireless, but it is unlikely to work at such range without a midway repeater. If there is power available at a mid point, you could try a multipoint mesh to increase your wireless reach.

One option I have seen deployed is a cellular connection. With the Cisco Meraki cameras the recording is done at the edge in solid state storage. This means only a small amount of metadata needs to be transmitted over the cellular link (in this scenario I expect it to be <5kbps). The user only incurs high data consumption when they want live or historical video from the camera. Cradle Point make a range of IoT cellular gateways that work in this scenario.

As an example I have a deployment in a national park with 7 cameras connected to a multipoint mesh who's Internet connection is a 4G uplink. 

Note that if the customer is using an NVR or VMS, MV cameras do not support ONVIF and so can't be integrated into an NVR or VMS and would act as a standalone platform.

 

 

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DC
Dwayne Cormier
Jan 17, 2019

george

I am looking at Ubiquiti and also Meraki. The client moved camera back to a reasonable 250 ft or so from house. Now I am looking for an AP that can easily provide coverage at this distance. Everything is in white which i cant install on outside of house. (clients preference) So I can install on garage wall facing the camera location. I get conflicting info when talking with sales about best choice. What are your thoughts and can it come in a darker color?

Thanks

GB
George Bentinck
Jan 17, 2019

I would suggest you choose an AP that allows you to connect external antennas with a suitable beam pattern. As long as there is line of sight 250ft is achievable without much issue. Note, I have seen deployments go wrong due to the wireless site survey and testing being done in winter, but in the summer the leaves on the trees provide heavy attenuation to the WLAN signal and connectivity is an issue.

I can't talk to the Ubiquiti product offering but you could look at two Meraki devices. Either the MR70 (https://meraki.cisco.com/lib/pdf/meraki_datasheet_MR70.pdf) which doesn't have external antennas but is lower cost, or the higher end MR74 (https://meraki.cisco.com/lib/pdf/meraki_datasheet_MR74.pdf) which can support external directional antenna such as this one (2.4 GHz Sector Antenna Datasheet) External antenna also allow you to locate the AP in a different location to the antenna. You could even use an indoor AP and put the antenna cabling through the wall.

Painting the APs will invalidate the warranty and is not recommended. 3rd parties offer paintable covers for Meraki APs, or you can make your own. The reason painting the APs directly is not supported is that it can change the thermal characteristics of the product. Painting it black and then leaving it in the Texas sun could mean it would run outside its design specification. 

 

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UM
Undisclosed Manufacturer #2
Jan 15, 2019

It feels like the wireless + battery powered endpoint solutions are all going to be a nightmare of reliability and engineering.

I'd say try to get POE most if not all of the way there and use a traditional POE IP camera.

http://www.veracityglobal.com/products/ethernet-and-poe-devices/longspan.aspx

Maybe some direct bury cat 6. I'd say call the Veracity team and see what they suggest for this type of solution. 

Definitely a tough one.

 

 

DC
Dwayne Cormier
Jan 15, 2019

I would like to employ any of the traditional type of installs. Problem is people have a hard time seeing the big picture. They would dump just as much money with more headaches of reliability where all said and done same cost would bury them hard wire set up to the location. That might be a bit of an exaggeration but realistically not far off. Some challenges just cant be done with cost effective means.

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SK
Steven Koranda
Jan 15, 2019
IPVMU Certified

I think the solar package with Ubiquiti PTP is a good solution for you.  I 've had very good results with the Ubiquiti PTP and solar sounds like your only method of getting power to the location.  There are some good solar packages out there.  It will probably be pricey but should work.  Good luck.

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UE
Undisclosed End User #3
Jan 15, 2019

Good line of sight?  Have you thought about putting a camera with a strong lens, like a PTZ, on his roof?   Let the lens cover the distance.  If he has a stretched out property he might even like the idea of having the PTZ to look all around. 

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