Member Discussion

New Non IP HD Alternative - Pacidal DTV?

Hi, any one ever heard on this "new" company Pacidal and their DTV protocol?

Alex Gutierrez

Alex, I believe it's similar to what StarDot is offering with MCLDC.

The daisy chaining aspect is potentially interesting so long as you go end to end with that limited protocol / option.

Hi Alexander,

Greetings from Pacidal. Thanks for asking.

Currently the transmission technology used in our DTV security systems is DVB-T, a broadcasting standard for digital terrestrial TV. So with DTV cameras, videos can be directly viewed on digital televisions with built-in DVB-T receivers or through a DVB-T set-top box.

Pacidal was founded in 1992 and has shifted its business scope to video surveillance from 2012. Our 1080p DTV camera was first launched at Secutech Taipei this year (Q2, 2014). Pacidal is going to launch more professional models in the coming years. You are welcomed to visit us at ISC West 2015 and IFSEC 2015.

Hi Thomas,

Since you are here, can you comment briefly on why one should choose your DTV offering over IP or analog HD offerings? I'd like to hear the pitch.

Hi John,

DTV surveillance is a good choice to upgrade an existing cctv system using old and degraded coaxes. Those cables can be retained in a DTV system. Compared to analog HD-over-coaxial solutions, which also say they can do the same, DTV surveillance has more advantages coming from its digital nature. The upsides include:

  1. Distance:in the world of analog transmission, video quality is degraded by the increase of distance. On the contrary, for DTV, video coming from a camera deployed a meter away and from a camera 1000-meter away show the same quality.
  2. Anti-interference ability: no more suffer from most interference sources due to DTV’s digital nature.
  3. Advanced applications of DTV: by using a single coaxial cable, you can daisy-chain lots of cameras, feed power (Power over Coaxial, PoC), integrate DTV cams with cable TVs, or transmit any kinds of digital data on it.
  4. 4K and 1080p/60fps DTV camera models are on the way.

DTV can also broadcast videos wirelessly.

DTV would be better than IP if you want to use coaxes in a site. By doing so, major upsides include saving costs from extra network equipment and cabling efforts. Installing a camera in an elevator is a good example. Another advantage is installers don’t need to have IP expertise to set up a DTV system.

DTV surveillance is a good choice to upgrade an existing cctv system using old and degraded coaxes.

What method would I use to actually get the video into a standard DVR or VMS ?

Set-top box to CVBS? DTV native capture card(s)? DTV IP encoder?

Do you compress the video at the camera?

Is there a technical reason that you are aware of that you can transmit 10x further than HD-SDI ?(also a digital video standard with a fixed length payload)

Is the transmission bi-directional, i.e., what configuration/control signals can be sent to the camera?

Will the 4K models require different head-end equipment?

For VMS integration, we recommend using DTV-IP (ONVIF) gateway. DTV capture cards are also available for further integration. DTV surveillance transmission is bi-directional, with supported configuration including: video streaming settings, image settings, event & motion configuration, and DTV transmission parameter control for certain.

For a standard DVB-T channel, the available bitrate is ~32Mbps with 8MHz bandwidth. Multiple H.264 compressed video streams can be transmitted together in one channel, using one frequency. The same infrastructure can take 4K or H.265 videos. No need for different head-end equipment.

The default frequency set on a DTV camera is 177MHz, while the required frequency for HD-SDI is 1.485GHz. So, signal attenuation of HD-SDI is several times higher than that of DTV with same coax. By the way, if you want to daisy-chain multiple DTV cameras, each camera needs to be set in different frequencies.

For the DTV capture cards, are they ONVIF cards, as well? As for the encoders, although I see several DVB to IP gateways, I didn't notice any ONVIF ones. Is this your own product, do you have a link?

Rephrasing earlier question, Do you have to compress video first? For instance, i.e., assuming a 1000 meter run with only one stream, can a 1080P/30 signal be sent completely uncompressed?

"DTV-IP (ONVIF) gateway"

Where does one get / buy such a gateway?

What does it cost? What does the cameras cost?

Hi Roger,

DTV capture cards are not ONVIF devices. And our DTV-IP (ONVIF) gateway will be launched next quarter.

For your question about compression, all videos transmitted through digital TV broadcasting standards are compressed ones. Do you have any special requirement for uncompressed data transmission?

Hi John,

Our DTV-IP (ONVIF) gateway will be released next quarter. Street price is around US$50 per channel. Costs of 1080p DTV cameras are similar to middle range 1080p IP cameras.

No requirement, just trying to differentiate the offerings.

For Analog HD and HD-SDI, there is no compression done at the camera, which could arguably mean a better live image with lower latency. Though in the case of Analog HD, there would be some transmission degradation.

Are you familiar with, or maybe even compatible with Stardot's similar technology?

Yes,we are. There are several vendors menufacturing compatible DTV cameras.

"similar to middle range 1080p IP cameras"

What do you consider a middle range 1080p IP camera? A specific model example?

Hi John,

A DTV camera’s street price should be between $300~$400 for basic DTV camera models. For advanced models (with PoC function), the street price falls somewhere between $500~$600. And we are now looking for sales partners in the U.S.

Thomas, if I can buy a 'basic' analog HD camera for $100, explain to me why I should buy a DTV one for $300-$400. What's the pitch?

No offense, Thomas but doesn't your offering potentially cause further marketplace confusion? With so many competing technologies: HDcctv (various flavors), HD-SDI, HDCVI, HD-TVI, AHD, DTV and IP all competing for the same business, how do the promoters of any of these HD technologies differentiate themselves?

It was bad enough in the Consumer Electronics field with the Beta vs. VHS wars, the HD-DVD vs. BluRay wars, etc. but now you have a much smaller and far more fractured CCTV market becoming even more fractured and confusing. Where will it all end, and when?

It certainly will cause more market place confusion, which is not simply bad for the market, it's bad for them.

They are going to need a very sharp competitive position plus a lot of marketing money to stand out.

Hi John,

Here is the pitch.

  1. Digital signals are less subject to the influence of interference. By using DTV, it’s much easier to show your customer differences when doing live-demos. Even if their original coaxial cables are deteriorated or with poor quality, videos are crystal-clear in most cases as long as DTV cameras are connected. On the contrary, analog HD solutions are much more subject to the influence interference, which will be proven over and over again in future applications.
  1. DTV is a seamless upgrade solution for CCTV. System integrators /installers can immediately do on-site upgrades for CCTV by using the original coaxes. To be specific, even for cases where partial coaxial cables are broken, new DTV cameras can be seamlessly added in an old CCTV system, since you can always connect a DTV camera into the nearest cable which is still working. Furthermore, because daisy-chain is supported, you can not only add one camera on one cable but multiple cameras on the same cable instead. This is one of the most attractive features of DTV surveillance. And it makes the whole upgrade and deployment process quicker and easier.
  1. If a customer wants to expand an original system, DTV surveillance can also provide seamless upgrades. The reason is the same as 2. Because daisy-chain is supported, it’s easy to add new camera(s). No need to deploy additional longer new cables.
  2. Using DTV, it’s easy to fulfil special or advanced requirements of projects including:
  • super long distance transmission (1000 meters +),
  • Power over Coaxial (PoC),
  • sharing cables with a cable TV sytem,
  • wireless transmission
  1. DTV’s future prospects: 4K, 1080p/60 fps, camera-side video analysis, advanced integration with other systems

We think analog HD will certainly exist in price-sensitive market segments for a long while, because unlike TV broadcasting system, there seems to be no analog switch-off dead line on video surveillance market.

Point (1), no interference is your top selling point? Doesn't seem to solve a key problem or justify spending 3x the price per camera compared to analog HD. In most cases, with analog HD, typical short runs, etc., interference is not going to be an issue at all.

Point (2) seamless upgrade is equally the claim of analog HD, right?

Daisy chain is clearly an advantage. What's not clear is how much of an advantage it is and whether it is worth paying $200+ more per camera for it?

Power over Coax is an advantage but how much is that worth compared to siamese?

What wireless transmission do you support today? What wireless equipment, etc.?

Spare me the future prospects. When they ship, you can take credit. Otherwise you are Rockoffing us.

To summarize, I think there are 2 clear advantages - daisy chain and power over coax but I think you need to do a better job communicating and quantifying why buyers should spend such a premium for your cameras.

Hi Carl, Good Point. Back to the fundamentals, HDCVI, HD-TVI and AHD are analog HD videos. HDcctv and HD-SDI are uncompressed digital videos. However, technologies such as ATSC, ISDB-T and all DVB-* related standards are compressed digital videos as IP. DTV surveillance is an innovative technology. And we do hope it will fill in the techinical gaps of current HD-over-coaxial solutions on the market.

Gaps, what gaps? With the plethora of available competing technologies, it seems to me that there is far too much overlap, not gaps.

Watch out, Dahua may try to intimidate your company too, LOL.

Otherwise you are Rockoffing us.

Rock' off, -ing, -ed v.

The seamless and casual transposition of proposed or unproven future capabilities into present day cost-benefit analysis or attempt thereof. Related: Rickrolling.