Subscriber Discussion

Looking For Information On Lorex 4K LNB9272S Camera

CS
Cam Sherwood
Nov 20, 2018

This is a new "complete system" that Lorex is offering. It includes 4 LNB9272S "nocturnal IP security cameras" and 4 other unspecified cameras.

U
Undisclosed #1
Nov 20, 2018

what kind of information would you like?

CS
Cam Sherwood
Nov 20, 2018

The quality of the equipment; tests of the cameras, if available. Any experience anyone has had with this, or similar, system.

Since this is an inexpensive package ($1500), there may be a difference between what the mfr promises, and what is actually delivered. Not that that ever happens.

U
Undisclosed #2
Nov 20, 2018
IPVMU Certified

...LNB9272S...and 4 other unspecified cameras.

JH
John Honovich
Nov 20, 2018
IPVM

Cam, we have tested Lorex in the past but not this model.

Note, Lorex was owned by FLIR but was sold to Dahua earlier in the year.

As for the LNB9272S, my main general concern is with low-cost 4K cameras. I am skeptical that they will deliver 'true' 4K video quality primarily because the cost of 4K lenses (especially varifocal as this model is) makes it hard to deliver low-cost products.

The LNB9272S product page has lots of details. One thing I couldn't find is how large the sensor is. It says 'Large image sensor' but not how large so it could be 1/2.5", 1/2.3", 1/1.9", etc. Sensor size and type make a difference for WDR, low light performance, etc.

Another point, while the camera says it supports H.265, it does not mention smart codec support. For a small system, storage may not be a big issue but these are 4K cameras so bandwidth consumption could be more significant.

Again, since we have not tested it, these are the type of questions I would ask but can't answer them.

We do plan to do a low-cost 4K shootout but Lorex would not be included since it is owned by Dahua, a much larger supplier, who would be included.

U
Undisclosed #2
Nov 20, 2018
IPVMU Certified

One thing I couldn't find is how large the sensor is.

Using the camera’s max focal length (12mm) and associated horiz. aov (39 degrees), one can engage the camera calculator in a game of trial and error to determine sensor size.  The calculator claims 2/3”.

JH
John Honovich
Nov 20, 2018
IPVM

We both know there is no chance they are using a 2/3" sensor. And as you have investigated in the past, there are variances between 'hypothetical' focal length / imager estimations and reality.

U
Undisclosed #2
Nov 21, 2018
IPVMU Certified

And as you have investigated in the past, there are variances between 'hypothetical' focal length / imager estimations and reality.

JH
Jay Hobdy
Nov 21, 2018
IPVMU Certified

Keep in mind, the higher the resolution, the worse the camera USUALLY does at night. So the application may be important here.

UM
Undisclosed Manufacturer #3
Nov 26, 2018

*Disclosure - I'm the PM for this camera*

Specs you were asking about:

- Image Sensor size - 1/1.8" (among the latest gen sensors from a well known company)

- Pixel size - 2.0 µm

- WDR/HDR - up to 100dB

- Compression - H.264 and H.265, Smart codec currently not supported

 

U
Undisclosed #2
Nov 26, 2018
IPVMU Certified

among the latest gen sensors from a well known company...

Is it the IMX334?

JH
John Honovich
Nov 26, 2018
IPVM

Thanks.

- WDR/HDR - up to 100dB

'True' multi-exposure WDR or not?

UM
Undisclosed Manufacturer #3
Nov 27, 2018

Yes, true multi-exposure WDR

CC
Chris Chambers
Mar 09, 2019

This camera is in the range of what I'm looking for (And I'm an individual residential customer.), and it appears to be readily available via Amazon, but an Amazon reviewer has listed total deal breaker cons:

"Cons:
o Motion is clearer than the 15fps options, but is still too blurry to make out clearly.
o Its main web interface only works with browsers from three years ago. So Lorex's apps are the only option for using it.
o Lorex's apps can NOT actually display 4k resolution so can not actually ever see the detail you are paying for.
o Lorex's apps can NOT actually set it to record 4k resolution so cannot save the detail you are paying for.
o Lorex's apps can NOT display video that actually uses the H.265 compression advertised. So files will take up around twice the space, and another thing you paid for you can not use.
o If you disconnect the camera the NVR it locks it self out. The only way to then get it to work again is to spend an hour on the phone their support to get a temporary generated password.
o Lorex's products can only have passwords that are exactly six characters long. Any more or less than that and the authentication fails and you can not get access.
o The six character passwords are way to insecure to expose to the internet so should not use the remote access apps.
o If you do manage to export video files from it, you will discover they are in a DAV format that almost no video player apps can play.
o If you ever want to use the recorded video you have to go through a very tedious process of exporting it, and then find conversion software to migrate it to a usable format.
"

Can you comment on this list?  (Probably ignoring #1 since no light level, shutter speed, or other key details are mentioned, and 30 fps means smooth as opposed to less blurry.)  I'm also not seeing any mention of on board micro SD storage, which would also be a deal breaker.

U
Undisclosed #1
Mar 09, 2019

"and 30 fps means smooth as opposed to less blurry"

blurriness is a result of focus and/or resolution deficiencies (low pixel density) and/or shutter speed issues - and has zero to do with frame rate.

 

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CC
Chris Chambers
Mar 09, 2019

I always find these "corrections"/explanations very odd, when it is obvious that the commenter being replied to understood the issue or otherwise did not state anything in need of correction.

U
Undisclosed #1
Mar 09, 2019

you are taking my reply as some kind of attack on you - vs my intention to agree with your comment immediately following the list you posted that was composed by some Amazon reviewer that was not you.

"Can you comment on this list? (Probably ignoring #1 since no light level, shutter speed, or other key details are mentioned, and 30 fps means smooth as opposed to less blurry.)"

I chose to ignore your request to ignore #1 is all.

We both agree #1 was dumb.

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CC
Chris Chambers
Mar 09, 2019

What we've got here is, failure to communicate. 

Just had some recent experience where it was the "correction" thing.

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U
Undisclosed #1
Mar 09, 2019

my apologies for not being more direct vs instead, choosing to be flippant.

please forgive me - it is simply my nature.  ; )

so let me be direct:  debating an Amazon camera review (on a 5 month old thread) is not very productive and doesn't help you - imo.

What are you trying to accomplish as a residential user - and how did you come across this particular camera (which I imagine lead you to this old thread)?

I think there are many people here who can help you to find the best solution for what you need if given some background information.... but posting an amazon review of your camera of interest just lets idiots like me make fun of that review.

I know that this is not helpful to you... but I admit that I couldn't help pan the comments of the amazon reviewer  ;)

 

CC
Chris Chambers
Mar 09, 2019

1. I completely reject the notion of "old threads".  Why start a new thread when the old thread/discussion deals with the subject at hand?  Why not keep the entire discussion in one place so things don't have to repeated?

2. I am asking for the person who claimed he was a company rep to respond to the very specific complaints made by the reviewer.  This is not a case of an "Oh, this product is horrible" review.  Other than complaint 1 where there was a lack of knowledge about what causes blur, the reviewer mentioned legitimate serious flaws, if they are true.  If they are inaccurate, Lorex and it's reps should correct them.  They haven't bothered to reply on Amazon, so why not ask here?  If the points mentioned are even partially correct, I can rule out what otherwise looks like it's right in the ballpark.

I will go further and suggest that this appears to an unusual industry.  As IPVM points out in some other areas here, some manufacturers aren't doing a very good job of marketing.  Hikvision is doing the marketing, and you can easily find almost all of their cameras at multiple US based vendors.  Dahua, not so much.  Ditto many of the others.  Lorex is being sold on Amazon but this model has just 2 reviews.  Some of the other cameras listed here I cannot even find on sale at all.  Even if some makes prefer to work through dealers/installers, many end users may often feel more comfortable if they are familiar with the products because they are available for sale on a widespread basis.  If you were paying to have some computers set up for you, would you prefer Dell or HP models be used, or XYZ computer company you've never heard of?

And a suggestion that no Amazon reviews are serious reviews, if that is what you were suggesting, is horribly false.  Amazon reviews run the gamut from fluff/fake to useless to okay to very detailed and absolutely spot on.  I've seen them all across the board.

I would agree that there is a high probability of getting help here.  There just appears to be a hole in the sub $300 4K well loaded space, that includes the low light performance of 1/2" and slightly larger sensors.  The Hik DS-2CD2785FWD-IZS is pretty decent (I have 2 now), but I want to go at least "one notch" better low light wise.  Reducing false alarms would be nice too, as my experience matches the review of Hik's poor performance in this area.

Ultimately the goal is the same as anyone installing security systems at their location.  Deter first with visible security measures, and if that doesn't work make sure the offenders can be identified on video, even at night.

MD
Matthew Del Salto
Mar 09, 2019
Hudson Security

Lorex is an OEM of Dahua cameras. There is nothing different besides the web interface logo. If you are looking for specific questions regarding firmware and settings it is a Dahua camera. There is a nice vendor selling them direct on Amazon who is probably in this thread and knowledgeable on the cameras if you message him direct on his website. These are surprisingly low cost for what it is. I have actually used a few varifocal models in a car dealership, however the location is well lit 24/7. It does suffer from the "ghost" effect most Dahua cameras suffer from. However, for ~$110 per camera it is decent for DIY at a low cost. Just remember you need a lot more storage!

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MD
Matthew Del Salto
Mar 09, 2019
Hudson Security

From what I remember the non varifocal model is the 'base' dahua camera without an SDcard. I believe the varifocal model does. If you call the vendor he can confirm it.

CC
Chris Chambers
Mar 09, 2019

I'm seeing this specific model on Amazon for about $275.  I don't see any info regarding a micro SD card slot.  I replied to the person indicating that they were the product manager, so perhaps I'll get an answer.

I have not used any Dahuas yet.  Ghosting, as in video freezing (partial or complete) and ghost images of something moving?  Maybe the max bandwidth of 8192 Kbps not enough with 4K 30 fps?  Or a typical problem with them regardless of BW vs. actual video stream needs?  I just returned a new Hikvision model that had freezing and ghosting problems if any "Smart Events" were enabled.

I have no need of long term storage, or full time recording.  Just event driven recording that hopefully catches the perp(s).

UM
Undisclosed Manufacturer #3
Nov 26, 2018

Good guess. Without getting into to much detail it's from a US based company, not Japanese

U
Undisclosed #2
Nov 26, 2018
IPVMU Certified

Good guess.

Just wanted to rule that one out before making my actual “on the record” guess of the OS08A20 ;)

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