Member Discussion

Can Arecont Cameras Display Time?

I have acquired a facility utilizing Arecont omni multi sensor cameras outside.  They do not have the ability to add a date/time stamp to the video at camera level??!!!??!?!?!?  This is the dumbest thing I have ever heard.  I am trying to determine whether or not the Microdueo dome camera from Arecont is just as lacking.  NONE of their downloadable stuff even shows a menu for on camera programming the date/time??!!!?!?!?!  Is it possible to have the date/time embedded on each frame of video at camera level on Arecont cameras as it is with AXIS (and probably all other cameras)??

 


What VMS are you using?

The VMS is irrelevant, but am ising Salient. Saient can DISPLAY a date/time but it will not show up on a snapshot as it is NOT ON THE ACTUAL VIDEO. The only way to see it would be with Salient's proprietary viewer.  Ot a problem normally as this would verify for court. However, export as standard industry format (avi) and standard Windows viewing software (media player, VLC, etc...) and there again is no date/time as it is NOT EMBEDDED ON EVERY FRAME OF VIDEO. It is included as metadata that will be displayed when using the proprietary viewer. This would be the case with ANY VMS as the VMS will not embedd the date/ time as that would be adulterating the raw video and should make the video inadmissadble as unadulterated video evidence. 

 

Why on earth would ANY camera not have the ability to include a date/time stamp on every frame of video?  

I will replace them with the multi sensor unit from Hanwha as it is a far superior camera anyway, AND it has the date/time stamp ability at camera level. 

Why on earth would ANY camera not have the ability to include a date/time stamp on every frame of video?

This is the same company whose cameras do not have a reset button, no HTTPS support and defaults to no authentication, so unfortunately this does not surprise me. Also, Worst Camera Manufacturers 2016...

Wow, I just scoured the manual, can't find it either. 

Thats insane. 

I agree!  There are microduo domes installed as well. I can not find any options for date/time stamp on those either!  

I'd check out the Axis P3707. It generates its own date. 

For others, here is the Arecont camera user manual (Jan 2017).

The installing company gave me the run around untill I flat asked if the cameras had the capability and they told me no and that they had runnit up to the Arecont engineers who confirmed it is not an option. 

And this applies to 2017?

Yes, sir. This applies to TODAY, July 1, 2017. 

So since you are recording on a VMS which is going to time stamp the video on all cameras why do you need it on the camera?  What is your plan if the VMS time and camera time are off and both time stamped in the video?

My plan is to NOT have the VMS time stamp the video as, at least with Salient, the exported video does NOT include the time stamp on the video, unless viewed with the proprietary video player and for sync reasons as ylu bring up. Law in the regulated market I am in requires the VMS to export in avi that is viewable through standard Windows software such as mediaplayer. The avi does not have the time stamp on it, nor do any exported snap shots if the video itself, at camera level, inudes the time stamp. 

Should have a time stamp without having the VMS add it. 

Can you post a link to the legal requirement?

Now I'm wondering whether you can burn the timestamp into the video only upon exporting the files. That is, the evidence export itself would encode the tamper-proof timestamps onto the video.

No offense, but I know the law and the rules that are to be followed with it, thank you. The state inspectors have confirmed the requirement. I don't need legal interpretation, I simply need a camera that has the ability to add the time stamp at camera level as any other camera I have ever worked with can.

The Hanwha multi-sensor camera will do that and will be the Arecont Omni's replacement for me. 

Just shocked that any IP camera today does not have that most basic ability. 

None taken. The requirement for "at the camera level" wasn't clear to me. I couldn't tell whether *use* of the camera's own metadata was equivalent to the camera's own video encoding of that metadata.

Where are you that this is the law?

I agree with you that the camera (instead of the VMS) should generate a correct time and date stamp on the video.

However, I disagree that having the VMS do it instead would "...be adulterating the raw video and should make the video inadmissible as unadulterated video evidence."

The United States Federal Bureau of Investigation addresses this topic (FBI — Standards and Guidelines), emphasis mine:

Each individual image and transaction data packet should have a time/date stamp associated with it. Whenever possible the time/date stamp should be generated as close to the image source as possible. For example, when a camera is directly wired to the digital recording device at the same site, then time synchronizing the recorder is sufficient. However, when the camera is located remotely (in another city) and connected to the recorder by a wide-area network (WAN), then the image may be delayed in transit. In those cases, it is highly desirable to associate the time stamp with the image at the source sensor (the camera) instead of at the recorder.

 Neither is the use of exported video in a proprietary format a problem for the USA FBI (same reference):

Some manufacturers use proprietary compression formats that require the use of proprietary software in order to view the video sequences or images. Use of such software can prevent or hinder law enforcement from viewing or otherwise accessing these images. If such software is used, then steps must be taken to ensure that law enforcement will be able to access them when needed.
 
References

FBI — Standards and Guidelines - Forensic Science Communications - January 2005 1. Retrieved from https://archives.fbi.gov/archives/about-us/lab/forensic-science-communications/fsc/jan2005/standards/2005standards1.htm

 

It is not the geographic location's law that dictates in my instance generally, it is the medical cannabis industry in various states.  Every state has different laws and associated rules in this vertical.  

No offense, but I know the law and the rules that are to be followed with it, thank you. The state inspectors have confirmed the requirement.

This is going to sound confrontational, but that is not my intent.

Show me. Show me chapter and verse where this is a requirement.

Admissibility of evidence is a judiciary concern. The state inspectors are part of the executive branch. So whose requirement is this?

I'm thinking this is just like the tribal "knowledge" that standards require fire alarm cable to be red. *Everybody* knows that, but it isn't true:

It ain’t what you don’t know that gets you into trouble. It’s what you know for sure that just ain’t so.

- Unsure, but it wasn't Mark Twain (contrary to what most people think)

However, I do agree with you that this should be a camera function.

And I am on your side. I think you are being jerked around here by said "state inspectors."

swap it out to relieve the pressure. might as will have an old vhs camera streaming to an encoder. which btw has a time date stamp!!!!

Camio.com/box can add reliable (server synchronized) timestamps as it records the RTSP streams from the cameras if you're looking for a way to keep those cameras in place while adding OSD (and/or metadata) timestamp. It requires a custom setting currently, so ping me if needed. FD I work at Camio.

 Who engineered this job? Is this a take over or addition? Dump the arecont!

Physical camera and image quality gets a 5 out of 10 rating and the user interface gets a solid 1 out of 10.