Subscriber Discussion

Which POE+ Switch To Use For 66 Cameras?

UI
Undisclosed Integrator #1
Jul 07, 2017

Looking for guidance as which reliable POE + switch to use for an upcoming 66 camera job, nothing to elaborate  w/300 MP total. I got burned on my last job by relying on what is available at distribution centers. I've been told data switches are not created or designed as switches made specifically for surveillance applications???

oK
oleg Kush
Jul 07, 2017

Netgear PRO never failed us, it did once out of 100+ jobs. Lifetime warranty. If switch fails For $50 extra they send you switch before you send them yours. So you come to job site ready to pull and install.

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U
Undisclosed #2
Jul 07, 2017

I suggest you check out Vigitron network switches. They are designed for IP cameras and they actually test them with common IP cameras like Axis. 

 

 

 

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U
Undisclosed #2
Jul 07, 2017

And Vigitron had a lifetime warranty

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U
Undisclosed
Jul 12, 2017

bad vlan support.  questionable management.  not obvious the price is that impressive.

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MM
Michael Miller
Jul 07, 2017

66 cameras is not a lot so most any manufacturer switch can handle this.  What you need to pay attention to are the POE requirements. So you find a switch that can handle the POE load of the cameras and any future cameras you plan on adding. We use HP2920s for most of our projects and they have been rock solid.  I have one customer that has 3 of them in small sealed metal NEMA boxes mounted to light poles in the middle of a park in the direct sun.   They have run fine for going on 3 years now.  I don't condone installing switches like this but the customer is always right :(  

 

Also, HP comes with a lifetime warranty.  We had one switch fail that was 7 years old and EOL.  They sent the latest model switch next day no questions asked. 

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UI
Undisclosed Integrator #1
Jul 08, 2017

Thank you for sharing your views!

UI
Undisclosed Integrator #3
Jul 07, 2017

Vigitron Switches are pretty solid for video as you can get full gigabit per port with a very solid power output if any cameras require more power.   Those switches are also set up for jumbo frame transmission which is cool. 

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UI
Undisclosed Integrator #4
Jul 07, 2017

Prepare your power budget with spare capacity for another 15 cameras.

As long as the switches are fully compliant with IEEE 803.3at. you are protected 

Ask the manufacturer whether they provide  Poe+ on all ports. Which is important.

Consider commercial switches such as Cisco or HP or Juniper or Dell  which are used for surveillance projects.

Whoever commented that data switches are not for surveillance they misled you. At the end IP cameras are sending video as data packets.

 

 

 

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Avatar
Hans Kahler
Jul 07, 2017
Eagle Eye Networks

Full disclosure - I work for Eagle Eye Networks, and we sell PoE switches, but it's not our primary business.

Regardless of whose switch you use, I would highly encourage you to get a managed switch.  They cost more, but they are worth it.  They provide the ability to not only control what's happening on the network, most managed switches also allow you better visibility into the traffic that's traversing your network.  

 

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Avatar
Marc Pichaud
Jul 07, 2017

Dear 

 

New specific Video Switches integrate:

- Onvif discovery software within units (some can even backup cameras, ..and manage cameras limited by ONvif S profile, waiting for Q universal discovery/ setup Profile ) You can genertate some kind of Traps like in SNMP but with muche less broadcast. We are just at the very begining of all this..

- POE power Temporisation by port to avoid to kill your UPS when you restart .... with 66 cameras you can clearly reduce quickly your UPS battery life during the first second !

- POE budget reservation per port : don't give Night extra consumption to other cameras (Heater / IR )

- MAC filtering with multiple Address par port when you cascade switches or duplicate poe ports (some switches can't do that ... and then  IT security is becoming very poor)

- RADIUS : not used right now according to what I know in Video , but is clearly the security futur for Video over IP when a manufacturer will offer a specific device to cover it

- Dual power supply ( to raise your failure tolerance)

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UI
Undisclosed Integrator #1
Jul 08, 2017
Very informative...thank you for sharing!
U
Undisclosed
Jul 12, 2017

mac filtering is a joke.  Onvif in a switch?  Ewww.

JH
Jay Hobdy
Jul 07, 2017
IPVMU Certified

Will all 66 cameras be run to the same switch/head end or will there be multiple IDF's?

 

You may also want to look at Luxul and Ubiquiti.

I have no experience in deploying the Ubiquiti in quite that size of a project. We have some Ubiquiti switches handling 40+ cameras though, and that is usually most of the cameras coming in through wireless.

 

We did use the Luxul on a 60+ camera project without issue at the head end. Most of the cameras came back via wireless there too.

 

Point being they handled the data, but did not have to support the POE as there were smaller switches at each building supporting that.

 

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Avatar
Christopher Freeman
Jul 07, 2017

Plan  for 80% factor

Prepare for Expansion of @ lease 20% 

Use Only High Grade, Good , High Power rated Switch's with 200+ rated power and min. 24 port Gigabit Rated, with rated 15wtts per channel min.@ 24 ports with Fiber inputs 

We have never had a failure using this principle 

When ever we cheepen out it cost, no room for upgrade, and always end up replacing switch. 

not to name brands 

But Some of our account providers , provide us with Cisco, Trendnet, umbuntu, D link Commercial 

Always spend a little more on the switch ( its worth it ) 

It does the most work in the processing 

OUR rule is if its cheep , you get what you pay for. 

600 -1200 for a good 24 pt, 240 wtt, poe is a good starting pt.

 

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UI
Undisclosed Integrator #1
Jul 08, 2017
Thank you for sharing!
Avatar
James Mazzarella
Jul 07, 2017

Ubiquiti US-48-750W POE+ Unifi Switch can handle 48 cameras typically with heavy usage for a long period of time with little to no issues as we have had dozens of them out for 1.5+ years with 100% success rate so far. There is a learning curve to the software defined management aspect with UBNT but you can use the switch without the cloud controller or USG if simply acting as a local POE switch for cameras.  It also allows for traffic analytics by port, cloud management portal for power cycling both individual  cameras and the switch if necessary, is GB vs 100Mb and has (2) 10Gb SFP trunk ports for stacking or trunking to NVR, allows us to create switch-side VLAN's and separate DHCP configs for converged camera/voip/data network setups and only costs about $850 a switch. 500W only about $600. They also have a new 250W 24 Port Layer 2 250W POE Switch for $235 that is still in beta.

We also use Meraki POE gear due to our clients spec'ing or requiring uniform networking hardware deployments and they are also excellent for this type of deployment but switches are $3K to start and not necessary for camera only setups. Engenius also makes a 740W switch we have used from time to time and it is also reasonably priced and pretty reliable.

 

 

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MM
Michael Miller
Jul 07, 2017

James I would be interested in talking with you more about your experience with Unifi hardware.  How much traffic are you pushing on your Unifi IP video networks? 

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Avatar
Jon Dillabaugh
Jul 07, 2017
Pro Focus LLC

No one gets fired for spec'ing Cisco, am I right?

Seriously though, like Michael said above, 66 cameras, in itself, is not a large install.

However, you really haven't given much info about the system you are installing. Are all of the cameras switch side endpoints in the same rack space, or will you have multiple IDF racks with uplinks?

What is your estimated bandwidth per camera? How many cameras per IDF? Lots of unknowns here.

Avatar
Luis Carmona
Jul 07, 2017
Geutebruck USA • IPVMU Certified

No one gets fired for spec'ing Cisco, am I right?

Only Cisco Surveillance. :)

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UI
Undisclosed Integrator #1
Jul 08, 2017

We are planing to use Digital Watchdog with most cameras being 5 MP recording 15 fps. All runs will be ending at the same equipment rack. Also wonder if having multiple switches is consider a better option that going with a 48 and 24 port switch

Avatar
Jon Dillabaugh
Jul 08, 2017
Pro Focus LLC

Ubiquiti switches should be fine. Since you need more than one, make sure to get a 10Gb DAC cable to link them via SFP+ ports. 

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UI
Undisclosed Integrator #1
Jul 08, 2017

Sounds good, thanks you!

MM
Michael Miller
Jul 08, 2017

If your going UBNT I would look at the UNIFI line for a project like this.

UI
Undisclosed Integrator #1
Jul 08, 2017
We are planing to use Digital Watchdog with most cameras being 5 MP recording 15 fps. All runs will be ending at the same equipment rack. Also wonder if having multiple switches is concider a better option that going with a 48 and 24 port switch?
JH
Jay Hobdy
Jul 09, 2017
IPVMU Certified

I would run 2 48 port switches and balance the load. 48 and 24 is going to be close to full when done.

On a 66 camera project, the cost of these switches will probably be a very very small portion of the project.

 

One thing I like about the smaller Ubiquiti Tough switches is they have Ping WatchDog that can power cycle a POE port. I do not think any of their bigger switches have that feature.

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U
Undisclosed
Jul 12, 2017

Yes you do when the client discovers you need the $30k (yes that's a k) software upgrade to support multicast.  Use a decent enterprise switch but don't go crazy with Cisco.

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UI
Undisclosed Integrator #5
Jul 09, 2017

Dlink Commercial DES-121028 P  28 ports POE SFP ports and <$225 

U
Undisclosed #6
Jul 11, 2017

I am a systems engineer for a very large government contractor testing Homeland Security technology.

In other highly reliable situations and large projects we have used Extreme Networks.  Some of the lines are not made in China.

They seem to have competitive capability and features with Cisco and seem to be displacing them with less cost.  I made a search for networking hardware last year and Extreme Networks fit the security requirements.  I am leery of Cisco as they had a massive layoff in Aug 16 with a change in paradigm for the company.  I also expect Extreme is more current and user friendly with management.  Local schools use them as well.

I have had no direct experience but would like to hear if anyone else has.

 

Thanks

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JA
Josh Aldridge
Jul 11, 2017

I agree with Jay's suggestion of using 2 48-port switches. This would allow for headroom/expansion on both. Look at something like the HP JG928A as a potential option.

U
Undisclosed
Jul 12, 2017

data switches are fine if you pay attention to all the specs.  If you need some kind of UL approval or something there might be an issue but in general in enterprise environments it should be fine.  No, a 2 inch wide unventilated plywood box built under the desk of an outdoor guard shack in southern California is not an enterprise environment, of course...

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