Subscriber Discussion

Looking For A Reliable VMS Company

UI
Undisclosed Integrator #1
Apr 10, 2017

Hi All,

We will be installing 280 IP Cameras and have looked at a few companies Onssi, Milestone and avigilon.

We want to have a video wall etc. any suggestions. 

 

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MC
Marty Calhoun
Apr 10, 2017
IPVMU Certified

Hik-Central is an excellent product, engineered and manufactured by HIKVISION, new software to North American market but tested widely all over the world with much success. Video Wall not a problem. HIKVISION is made in China. In China the government has part ownership of many companies, HIKVISION is only one of many. China is not the USA, this is how business is done over there, nothing to worry about. Go Figure this: HIKVISION is the # 1 WORLD-WIDE supplier of IP Video Cameras and Network Video recorders, period. So if you have problems buying Chinese products just think of the 100's of millions they have sold and are working today with excellent results. Ignore unfounded articles that point technical blame with no technical factual content only political grievances because HIKVISION has chosen a path of 'no comment' and is based in a country that been around for thousands of years and has laws differing to the USA. If you want politics to divide you from your money listen to the "fluff". If you want to be a leader and use the #1 product WORLD-WIDE choose HIKVISION, always.

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UI
Undisclosed Integrator #2
Apr 10, 2017

I'm new here, so excuse the noob question.  Do you work for HIK?  If not, you should?  They need a sales director in socal.

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UI
Undisclosed Integrator #1
Apr 10, 2017

Hi Marty,

Thank you. Where can i get more information from as i did try to contact them and it was horrible service. i called the USA office and no one had any idea who dealt with the caribbean. SNH

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UM
Undisclosed Manufacturer #6
Apr 12, 2017

I guess all the unfounded articles around HIK are all FAKE NEWS, shame on you IPVM and your peers!

A little historical background for you to ponder Marty is that it is the Communist Party of China part owners of HIK was formed in 1921, now that's hardly "Thousands of Years", in fact its 145 years younger than the formation of the USA in 1776, But wait a minute Marty, that makes you a FAKE NEWS presenter too! 

Anyway I digress from the topic in hand which is a suitable VMS, well for my two cents try choosing something home grown for a change, support your own developers and manufacturing, get back to.....

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JH
John Honovich
Apr 10, 2017
IPVM

#1, you can review our Favorite VMS Manufacturers 2016 for top choices and detailed integrator commentary.

Besides video wall, what else do you want? Access control? Analytics? Alarm management? etc.

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UI
Undisclosed Integrator #1
Apr 10, 2017

Hi John, 

Video wall & Analytics like Line crossing and ROI.

UI
Undisclosed Integrator #1
Apr 10, 2017

Seems Like Milestone. 

 

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UI
Undisclosed Integrator #4
Apr 11, 2017
Not a bad choice at all, particularly if utilizing a wide range of third party cameras or third party applications. I don't think you could go wrong with any of the top VMS from that article. I've only used 3 of the 4 on the list but I feel that each of them have their merits and use cases. Milestone is generally the one that best covers the range from ultra small to mammoth enterprise systems the best.
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UI
Undisclosed Integrator #1
Apr 11, 2017

Thanks

UM
Undisclosed Manufacturer #3
Apr 10, 2017

Pick me, Pick me!

Signed,

-Every Manufacturer on IPVM

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UI
Undisclosed Integrator #5
Apr 11, 2017

I was going to try and be funny and promote HIK before Marty, but he beat me. 

I'm not a HIK employee, I just knew he would. 

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Joel Rosario
Apr 11, 2017

Good Morning. As you have already seen the 3 previous companies. My suggestion is that you use Milestone XProtect, where you explore the benefits of Smart Wall as long as it applies to your project. You will have many benefits for the amount of devices that supports Milestone, as well as other advantages as an integrator.
If you do not like Smart Wall, I suggest using Activu, who have a lot of experience with video wall installations and supports, using the best practices for the implementation you need.

Remember that recently Milestone and Intel have worked to reduce costs and use servers and workstations (PCs) that support a lot of streams without affecting their performance, using Intel Quick Sync technology.

Greetings.

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MM
Michael Miller
Apr 11, 2017

Avigilon's Video Wall is free and they have no reoccurring software or support fees compared to Onssi and Milestone.   The software is very easy to use and requires little training.  Avigilon can handle 280 cameras without issue as we have many systems larger than that running for years without issue. 

Analytic wise Avigilon includes them for free as they are built into the camera and have zero calibration time as they are self-learning and simple to set up rules and alarms based on ROI and cross the line events. 

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UI
Undisclosed Integrator #1
Apr 11, 2017

We are using 3rd party cameras will this be an issue?

MM
Michael Miller
Apr 11, 2017

We have taken over a lot of systems with 3rd party cameras and they work in Avigilon but you don't get the advanced features that Avigilon has build-in there cameras.  What we have seen is customers get tired of all the 3rd party integration issues with their current system.  When they upgrade their VMS to the latest version then the cameras stop working until they upgrade the camera's firmware IF the new firmware is supported. 

Then with the money they save by not having to purchase video wall software or pay for support and re-occurring software fees they invest in new Avigilon cameras and never look back. 

Which cameras do you currently have? 

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UI
Undisclosed Integrator #1
Apr 11, 2017

Samsung & Hik.... yes i know

MM
Michael Miller
Apr 11, 2017

Samsung and Hik will connect with Avigilon with Motion detection. 

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Jon Dillabaugh
Apr 11, 2017
Pro Focus LLC

How about their onboard analytics beyond simple VMD?

MM
Michael Miller
Apr 11, 2017

Right now no but I haven't seen them work as reliable as Avigilon's.  We have 800 cameras take over project right now which the customer has Samsung and Interlogic (Hikvision) so far we have 200 cameras swapped out with Avigilon and will be starting the next 200 cameras in a couple of weeks.  Once the customer saw how much more reliable the Avigilon VMD and analytics are and how much faster they are to configure they can't wait to replace the next 400 cameras. 

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Jon Dillabaugh
Apr 11, 2017
Pro Focus LLC

I would agree that nothing works better with ACC than Avigilon cameras, as would be logical. Why would Avigilon want to support third party cameras as well as their own. It wouldn't make sense, unless you were a VMS first, camera company second, which Avigilon obviously isn't. They are the best end to end solution I've seen so far.

That said, if you are stuck with third party cameras, for whatever reason, he would probably be better off with a different VMS.

I would strongly suggest he takes your advice and try talking the client into swapping end to end for his best case scenario.

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MM
Michael Miller
Apr 11, 2017

His best bet is to download demo versions of the VMS solutions the customer is interested in and test them with the cameras onsite.  Kick the tires and see what works best for the customer. 

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UM
Undisclosed Manufacturer #8
Apr 12, 2017

Avigilon's Video Wall is free and they have no reoccurring software or support fees compared to Onssi and Milestone.

Micheal, doesn't Avigilon also charge support software update and support fees if you want updated software versions after annual periods? The only difference being Avigilon charges based on the number of servers and not the number of cameras, versus Milestone/OnSSI with charges based on number of cameras and I think also a base server fee? And it's not like any of the mentioned will stop working of the software support renewal fees are not paid....?

Any corrections will not be taken personally. :)

JH
John Honovich
Apr 12, 2017
IPVM

if you want updated software versions

yes but only for major versions infrequently and at much lower prices, see: Avigilon New VMS Version ACC6 Examined

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MM
Michael Miller
Apr 12, 2017

Avigilon has NO support or re-occurring fees and they have 24/7 free phone support, advanced replacement on all camera hardware and free onsite support for server hardware.  As of ACC6 there is a small charge per camera to upgrade any licenses from ACC5 purchased before July 1 2017. 

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Jon Dillabaugh
Apr 11, 2017
Pro Focus LLC

As Michael said, Avigilon is a great choice, if you are planning on using Avigilon cameras and can find a way to buy them. End to end, I haven't seen a better solution.

As far as video walls go, what features did you need there? Is it just combining a group of displays to make a single, larger display? Or, do you want more functionality? The ability to collaborate? 

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UI
Undisclosed Integrator #1
Apr 11, 2017

ok now seeing this. We already have 3rd party cameras.

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Jon Dillabaugh
Apr 11, 2017
Pro Focus LLC

Most of the great features of ACC are lost when using third party cameras. Avigilon builds most of its features inside of its cameras, not the VMS. That is why I mentioned it is maybe the best end to end solution, but the VMS alone is less impressive.

You are probably going to be best served by an independent VMS developer that more openly supports third party cameras. We use DW Spectrum / Nx Witness as our VMS, but currently, they don't have integrated analytics. You would need a middleware application or appliance to have analytic features.

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UI
Undisclosed Integrator #1
Apr 11, 2017

Thanks Jon. We will do more research as i don't want to have to many applications which can be a pain in troubleshooting etc. 

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Brandon Knutson
Apr 11, 2017
IPVMU Certified

Longtime OnSSI end-user here. There were some software pains a while back, but I'm very happy with the current version (v5.3)

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Alain PREVOST
Apr 12, 2017
COFADIS France

Hello All,

Why not to consider Luxriot EVO : http://www.luxriot.com/

Very good customers relationship.

 

 

CV
Charles Volschenk
Apr 12, 2017

Disclaimer - I work for Geutebruck.

Your heading specifically mentions that you are looking for "a Reliable VMS company". If that is your most important criteria, I recommend that you include Geutebruck in your evaluation. Reliable German-engineering and regional sales and technical support, without having to go through distribution.

If you qualify to become a Certified Geutebrück Integrator, our solutions and technology are proven and will help you win more business, achieve better margins, get out of the “race-to-the-bottom” and enjoy less competition in projects.

You can look at our solutions at www.geutebruckUSA.com 

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UM
Undisclosed Manufacturer #8
Apr 12, 2017

As a Geutebruck dealer, I would affirm it as a quality product. It is our lead offering for enterprise and mission critical solutions. Most importantly it is stable product. I post undisclosed because I don't want to irk other product vendors we work with, but we're happy to be used as a reference for the them.

MM
Michael Miller
Apr 12, 2017

We looked at Geutebruck at ISC along with many other VMS solutions and I was impressed with Geutebrucks platform.   Looking forward to getting it on house to kick the tires.

UI
Undisclosed Integrator #7
Apr 12, 2017

I would install exacq over avigilon and milestone due to openess and cost of licensing.

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TB
Tim Ballman
Apr 12, 2017

Milestone is a great product line. Backend of the software is excellently designed but can be a struggle to manage if your not fluent in VMS systems and creating rules. The user side of Milestone "front end" is not as well developed and as easy to use for normal everyday users of all technical backgrounds.  have a motto of being an open source platform.

Verint is a VMS system that has a great user interface for all walks of life but its extremely lacking in what it can do in the backend of the software if you intend to tie it to other systems. 

Genetec is another VMS manufacture that I haven't had much dealings with but I have heard decent overall comments about them. They basically design the software around your needs

Panasonic has a product called video insight. Panasonic's cameras have always been in the middle of the cost factor spectrum. They are not to expensive, yet not cheap chunks of plastic that break right away. Video insight they purchased a few years ago and they are still building up their VMS system. If their VMS proves to be as sturdy as their cameras they maybe heading for the big three one day. pretty good company to deal with if you want to take a chance on their new VMS solution.

Their are many other options in the field that I didn't mention, I would recommend researching and talking with their sales representatives. I do however strongly recommend staying away from Hikvision! They maybe cheap but you get what you pay for and that includes all the network issues they have at the moment.

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David Warren
Apr 12, 2017
Security Network Advisors LLC

I just saw a demo from Axxon and walked away very impressed with how they collect data for their analytics. I spend a lot of time overseas and they are installed all over the place. Might be worth a look if you are struggling with the over distribution of the other brands.

Otherwise, Milestone has really rolled out a stable and good product that works and will give you very little issue. John Has a good write up on VMS you should check out. 

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KL
Ken Lamarca
Apr 12, 2017

Please consider using OnSSI's Ocularis 5. Not only does it provide no charge video wall licenses when using the Ultimate version, but provides full encryption between clients and servers, includes Smart Camera Drivers so that you don't have to wait for newly introduced cameras to be supported, allows for the use of lower cost SATA drives, eliminates MAC addressing requirements and many more benefits that improve performance, shorten installation time and reduce the total cost of ownership.

Ocularis 5 is available in Professional, Enterprise and Ultimate versions.  All three scale infinitely and the decision on which to use is predicated upon feature set, not camera count.

Thanks,

Ken

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Ed Ed
Apr 12, 2017
Broadband Infrastructure Inc

Of the three you mentioned Avigilon and Milestone are my choice.  I have found that most of the VMS products have a solution for any install.  I have been using IPConfigure Orchid lately and have have success with our basic deployments. 

Cheers!

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Robert Summers
Apr 12, 2017
IPVMU Certified

VMS: You should also check out Genetec

Video Walls: Barco + Christie

Good luck.

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Matthew Netardus
Apr 13, 2017
IPVMU Certified

What kind of features are you looking for other than video wall?

What kind of cameras are you currently using, and equally as important- what kind of cameras do you anticipate needing in the future? (is it all one brand now with a potential need to diversify in the future? is it a mix of cameras you have now?)

Is this a single site/any need to link multiple sites?

Any integrations or plugins with access control/LPR/analytics?

What kind of budget is available for this project?

Is there aversion or anticipation for software support fees?

 

What counts as a reliable company will definitely be heavily dependant on the answers to the above questions. If you are looking to avoid software support, than Avigilon has a solid play here. If you are looking to integrate with LPR/Analytics/Access Control then we generally stick primarily with Genetec as the "unification" is a strong selling point there. If the project is stuck with a low budget, then ipConfigure has a compelling product at a low cost point, as does Salient. All of the above are solid companies. On the very low budget side you also have the HIK product line that Marty likes to pitch, though there are definitely some additional concerns there with the potential cyber vulnerabilities (though they have definitely stepped up their game since Genetec tagged them as additional risk devices, and they seem to have made several changes in policies and configurations that directly corresponded with the risks that Genetec had identified as their reason for restricting their cameras). 

On a system of that size I would say look at Genetec as the top dog in that arena

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