Subscriber Discussion

Is Too Much Resolution Illegal?

U
Undisclosed #1
•Nov 20, 2016
IPVMU Certified

I finally replaced the last analog SD camera on my home system, a pathetic excuse for a camera, purchased around 10 years ago when it was a cutting edge integrated IR micro-bullet, shown here:

It topped out at something called CIF, which is an industry term denoting a resolution that lies between "wretched" and "unusable", or 360x240.

It was mounted next to the garage door, looking straight out into the driveway into the street and beyond.  I replaced it with an even cheaper 4MP IR bullet IP camera, which likely originated from the same overseas zip code.

I matched the FOV from the old with the new.  Everything looks great, except that I noticed that where there once was just a barely distinguishable outline of the house across the street, now if i digitally zoom I can join them for dinner!

I have used the privacy mask to cut out some sections, but the bulk of the FOV cannot be eliminated this way, since it would eliminate the near ground, which is what I use it to capture.

I'm also reluctant to move it higher because it also looks up the street, and while it wasnt pretty, it could reliably trigger on headlights approching (I live at the end of a one-way street ;).

Has anyone dealt with this issue when upgrading cameras?

 

 

 

 

JH
John Honovich
•Nov 20, 2016
IPVM

TLDR: My camera might just invade my neighbor's privacy.

It's a good point / story. I am not sure what the legal implications are but as resolution continues to grow it is going to be more and more of an issue.

In the past, as you describe, this was simply not a concern as the technology was not there. You could have used PTZs but given their historic cost, this was generally only a concern for cities or larger businesses who put policies in place, including privacy masking.

But it will become a practical problem as we go from HD to 4MP to 4K to 12MP, etc.

And what makes it tough is how do you enforce it? Do you check the resolution of the camera? The effective PPF? Or do you ban any cameras that point at others properties?

U
Undisclosed #1
•Nov 20, 2016
IPVMU Certified
In reply to John Honovich

Do you check the resolution of the camera? The effective PPF? Or do you ban any cameras that point at others properties?

Or will the neighborhood coverage eventually become so inadvertantly detailed that the (potentially) watched, are better off taking counter measures.

Like outward facing IR illumination on 24/7.

Avatar
Brian Karas
•Nov 20, 2016
IPVM

In most places in the US you can film or photograph anything that is visible from public areas, which in your case if not your driveway, would be the street immediately in front of it. There is no restriction on resolution/zoom, which is what funds the majority of the paps that make a living in your area.

In Japan, residents can request that cameras viewing public areas have privacy masks to cover windows so that the cameras do not record "private" stuff that happens inside a residence. Citizens can request an audit of the municipal cameras that cover their buildings to ensure the privacy masks are in place. (Yes, in theory privacy masks could be applied post-facto, but that does not seem to be an issue).

U
Undisclosed #1
•Nov 21, 2016
IPVMU Certified
In reply to Brian Karas

There is no restriction on resolution/zoom, which is what funds the majority of the paps that make a living in your area.

Actually we have a few anti-pap laws,

Granting the wishes of an industry that at once promotes and protects its famed charges, Gov. Pete Wilson of California signed lesiglation last week intended to allow celebrities to sue paparazzi for invasion of privacy.

The law will allow photographers to be found liable for invasion of privacy if it is proved that they trespassed or used telephoto lenses to capture images of people engaging in personal or familial activity, and provides for hefty damage awards against both photographers and their organizations. The New York Times

Not my neighbor, but

JH
John Honovich
•Nov 21, 2016
IPVM
In reply to Brian Karas

In most places in the US you can film or photograph anything that is visible from public areas

Sure, but that is based on the premise of cameras working as well or less than the human eye (which has been true).

But as (even cheap) cameras become better than the human eye, this will raise new questions about what is 'public'.

UM
Undisclosed Manufacturer #2
•Nov 21, 2016
In reply to John Honovich

First off, I am not a lawyer so what I say is not authoritative, but as this question has been asked before and it is an interesting discussion, I will share what I have been told by lawyers.

First off the concept is not that you can photograph anything that is visible from public areas. After all, public restrooms by definition are public areas and clearly you are not allowed to photograph or record in those locations. There are some public areas where photography can be legally restricted.

While the laws vary from state to state, the underlying legal concept is based on the idea of "Expectation of Privacy." The thinking usually revolves around what a person could reasonably expect to be an area where their activities were private. If you were to record or photograph a person who had a reasonable expectation of privacy then you could be found criminally or civilly liable.

As with many things in law there are a lot of gray areas and the same situation could be interpreted differently by different judges/juries. For example, people have tried to claim their privacy was violated where there was no reasonable expectation of privacy. At the same time, people have successfully argued they had an expectation of privacy where others though there was none. There are no black and white rules.

My lawyer would always advise that if in doubt, error on the side of caution and be a good neighbor, especially if there is no legitimate security need for what you are doing. In law, intent is important. If you were accidentally capturing images of your neighbor as a result of your legitimate need to watch your driveway, that would be seen differently than pointing a ultra high resolution camera right at your neighbor's window and seeing through the spaces in their blinds.

Note that this is not legal advice and you should consult with your attorney.

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