Subscriber Discussion

Is There An Electric Strike That Will Work With This Mortise Lock?

UI
Undisclosed Integrator #1
Nov 15, 2018

I didn't catch this during the quick walk-through, now I'm stuck.  Standard 4 7/8" Metal door frame, but with a mortise single keyed deadbolt with thumb latch on the secure side. The weird issue is the deadbolt.  Engaging the deadbolt locks the latch on the outside but allows the inside handle to release the latch. 

However with the Deadbolt engaged, it obviously wouldn't allow the door to be opened.  

I looked on line and see the 6400 series, but not sure if it would get around that locked engaged deadbolt issue. Don't know enough about mortise lock to know if I could disable the deadbolt engaging and rock on.  Hopefully there's an existing product that would address this.  Thanks in advance.

 

 

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Brian Rhodes
Nov 15, 2018
IPVMU Certified

The orientation of the bolt makes this a 'deadbolt lock'.  The latch is really a 'dead latch' too, but that doesn't really impact strike selection.

I think an HES 1600CDB with the 1NTD faceplate would work:

You'd need to measure the latch spacing to be sure, but I've seen these strikes used for deadbolt locks with success.

UI
Undisclosed Integrator #2
Nov 15, 2018

Yes, you disable the deadbolt internally(which results in the thumb-turn spinning freely) and replace the faceplate on the mortise lock with one that has no hole for the deadbolt to travel through, i.e the new faceplate would only have a cut-out for the latch.

You can then use most any heavy duty electric strike made for mortise locks, i.e. HES, Von Duprin, etc.

 

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Brian Rhodes
Nov 15, 2018
IPVMU Certified

If the strike moves out of the way of a thrown bolt, why disable it?  Asking because I'm curious.

UI
Undisclosed Integrator #2
Nov 15, 2018

Getting the door opened , no problem. However, the spring loaded latch will retract across the keeper of the electric strike and allow the door to close .. how would an extended deadbolt allow the door to close once it is opened the first time? Wouldn't it hit the keeper in the strike and stop there?

Also, one caveat to using an electric strike on a door/frame like this (from best I can tell from the angle of the picture): I see a block wall on the outside that extends perpendicular to the door frame.  Two things that can sometimes hang you up on doors like this are 1) making sure the door frame is deep enough to allow the full depth of the electric strike body to be cut out of the return of the door frame, i.e these heavy duty strikes usually require between 1 13/16" and 1 15/16" of depth.  This brings us to the 2nd caveat, and that is once an electric strike is installed where there is a tight perpendicular wall or surface next to the door frame, the thickness and bulk of the strike keeper may not allow the keeper to fully open, i.e. it will hit the perpendicular surface  before the latch is fully out of and clear of the strike cavity ... especially a concern for longer latches.

 

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Brian Rhodes
Nov 15, 2018
IPVMU Certified

With a deadbolt strike, the keeper is mechanically kept down/out of the way until the door closes again.

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Brian Rhodes
Nov 15, 2018
IPVMU Certified

Of note, this feature is called 'deadbolt recapture' by HES, but it may be called something else by another brand.

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UI
Undisclosed Integrator #2
Nov 15, 2018

= electrified mortise case lock instead?

(3)
UI
Undisclosed Integrator #1
Nov 16, 2018

Update: There was an additional door that already had a frame strike that we integrated into the system as well.  Today after my experience with the other door, I went over and took another look. Turns out it was the same set up originally. 

 

It appears whoever installed the strike changed out the mortise guts to one that has a button push to engage/disengage the non secure side handle.  The button is just beneath the latch in the first picture.  There is no deadbolt and no one there has ever found a key to that lock so no idea if the keyway would allow for manually unlocking.  

 

Would it be simpler to get a locksmith door/hardware guy to supply a mortise replacement similar to above?  I'm actually worried that if I leave the existing mortise deadbolt in, it extends so far that the latch wouldn't catch if I cut the frame to accommodate it,  unless I made some type of staircase cut on the frame  

U
Undisclosed #3
Nov 16, 2018

If you have to replace the hardware either way, have the locksmith / door hardware guy install an electrified mortise case. Much cleaner looking, substantially more secure, and less likely to have issues long-term.

UE
Undisclosed End User #4
Nov 16, 2018

Arguments I've heard before but found supporting info to be limited.  Could you expand on them?  Cleaner looking to a degree but not sure I'd say "much".  Maybe in some cases and it is nice to not have to mod frames.   I'm particularly interested in the "substantially" more secure notion.  I think that would depend on some specific situations. Less likely to have long-term issues I'm not sure I've seen come to fruition either.  Seen plenty of issues with the needed power transfers alone.   A strike is easier/cheaper to diagnose, swap, when needed.   Electrified mortise does make the door handle turn-to-open behave normally though whereas with a strike someone has to know to push/pull.  There have been a few people that thought they were locked out because the handle wouldn't turn and they didn't know they needed to just push/pull the door open.  

TM
Ty Mullen
Nov 16, 2018
COR Security, Inc.

It looks like a Sargent mortise lock. Make sure the strike that you choose says it's compatible with Sargent. With mortise locks, unlock cylindrical locks, you really have to pay close attention to which locks they are compatible with. The latch and anti pick change locations based on the manufacture so that has to be accountanted for. 

Generally it's just a matter of getting the correct hafa plate. 

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