Is It Ok To Relabel Dahua Without Permission?

Dahua 8 channel POE NVR, $280, order today, get tomorrow. Good deal, except that...

Dahua doesn't support or stand behind unauthorized sales, like these.

But do they mind if someone were to sell and support them on their own? Would they prefer that their logo was replaced in that case?

Could they actually do anything to stop someone rebadging and reselling them(besides tightening their export control)?


To be an official Dahua OEM one needs to apply and commit / be able to deliver a certain level of business. I don't know the amount, and it likely varies by region, but it most assuredly is going to require selling thousands or tens of thousands of units annually, not buying onesie, twosies off the Internet.

That said, I doubt Dahua's going to sue anyone for sticking their trunk slammer logo on a few boxes.

I doubt Dahua's going to sue anyone for sticking their trunk slammer logo on a few boxes.

Do you think that they actually could sue? If you buy 1000 bottles of Coca-Cola for $2 at 7/11 and sell them for $5 at a nightclub, could Coke stop you? Even if you sell a million?

And if you peel off the label and replace it with "John's Cola", could they stop you then? Would Coke care, in either case?

Do you think it matters to Dahua whether they are simply resold vs rebadged, or do they view either scenario as equally undesirable?

"And if you peel off the label and replace it with "John's Cola", could they stop you then?"

Yes. For example, see this attorney Q&A: Can I purchase a product from the manufacturer and then rename it and repackage it to sell it as my own product?

"Do you think it matters to Dahua whether they are simply resold vs rebadged, or do they view either scenario as equally undesirable?"

Dahua definitely does not want random people illicitly relabeling their equipment. I've had that conversation with them explicitly. And that position is not surprising. That's what OEM contracts are for, so they can control who sells, how much they sell, how they sell it, etc.

Good info. Thanks for the link. Researching it a bit, it's called awkwardly, "Reverse passing off". And I agree it would make a straight-up Cola or Dahua re-label impossible without their consent. Interestingly, from the link you gave it also opines

One other thing is that using another person's product as a part of your own is fine where it is just a component of your product.

So perhaps re-enclosing a someone else's POE switch and another's router and a 16ch Dahua in one unit would be legal to rebrand.

As for the question of whether Dahua can stop someone from reselling without re-labeling, the copious amount of product available on Amazon might suggest no. Also, this case Costco vs. Omega watch in which Costco was selling gray market Omega product against their wishes, was just decided in favor of Costco, confirming the applicability of the First Sale Doctrine.

Do you think that they do have legal recourse, but are choosing not to pursue legally those who sell branded product online? On the other hand there is very little new, boxed Avigilon product on Amazon. Maybe that's more an effect of greater control because of a shorter supply chain, than of any legalistic action. What do you think?

But as for the original questions of "Do they care about rebranding?" and "Can they stop rebranding?", I'm agreed to Yes and Yes...

"So perhaps re-enclosing a someone else's POE switch and another's router and a 16ch Dahua in one unit would be legal to rebrand."

Yes, but at that point they are not duping anyone or misrepresenting the NVR. They would be marketing something else - e.g., the MegaKit, a turn-key video surveillance solution.

As for Avigilon and Amazon, that proves that manufacturers can enforce this if they really make it a priority. There are no Avigilon cameras for sale on Amazon.

That's what OEM contracts are for, so they can control who sells, how much they sell, how they sell it, etc.

Do you believe that Dahua is actually limiting the amount product that any OEM can sell, or enforcing territorial restrictions between partners? Not that they couldn't, or shouldn't, but normally a company pushing for (and achieving) phenomenal growth wouldn't be putting the brakes on much. Do you know if these OEM contracts have an element of exclusivity, territorial or otherwise, in them?

"Not that they couldn't, or shouldn't, but normally a company pushing for (and achieving) phenomenal growth wouldn't be putting the brakes on much."

Counter Exhibit A: Avigilon

Counter Exhibit B: Neither Dahua nor Hikvision support buying their products from China and then using / re-selling them in the USA.

Net / net: those might be considered 'putting the brakes' but some measures are needed to ensure orderly coordinated growth.

John, from what Jon (and possibly Dileep) describe below, it sounds like small dealers can easily get a relabeling kit, either for small setup fed or min. order requirements. Also the agreement seems to be just with the OEM, not Dahua per se.

So, it seems like if it goes thru a Master OEM, then Dahua is ok with it because the OEM gets his cut and will be happy. Does that sound right to you?

All I can say is that it is done. I disagree with the practice but I have seen a company manually peeling lables off or using solvents like acetone to remove one brand and put a sticker of the integrator's on the equipment...so that potential end users can not shop the mark up. Makes me sick for a lot of reasons, but I have witnessed it first hand.

Be better than that.

But once the customer boots up the unit and logs in, it still says the original manufacturer, no?

Is the point that it's simply too late then for the customer to do anything?

No, not necessarily. I have never seen a Dahua logo on or in any of their products software/firmware. In fact, Dahua has on their site for public download a tool to install your logo on their DVRs.

Unfortunately, yes. Like getting rick roled but not funny at all.

Worse...they ship it in the same box it came with OEM on it.

And, one would have to use OEM website to download remote view software. Use the OEM app for smart device viewing etc...

Funny and upsetting at the same time.

Makes me want to get a cabin in the woods when I really think about it...but not that misanthropic...yet

Dahua them selves knows these relabiling happening.. That is the reason they used to sell small quantity without logo.. Without logo means, no boot up logo.. no screen printing logo on the device... Means the integrator can put their sticker easily..

Foir high quantity they will put the OEM logo, OEM box, mauals etc...

Dahua them selves knows these relabiling happening.. That is the reason they used to sell small quantity without logo.

"Used to sell" as in no longer? How long ago? Would they sell small quantity without logo to anyone or just long-term, contractual OEM partners?

Yes for long they used to... small quanitity like 25 - 100 pc you can get it neutral pack... No contracts...

I know of two Dahua OEMs off hand that offer private labeling programs. Since I don't believe these two companies are related in any way, this sounds like a Dahua (or maybe higher tier distributor?) program, since they both offer the same program.

I know of two Dahua OEMs off hand that offer private labeling programs.

To small dealers/integrators? Is it contractual in any way?

Yes to small integrators or dealers. No contract at all. Small up front setup fee at one place and no setup, but min order requirements at the other.

Example 1

Example 2

Interesting. Thanks a lot!

Maybe John would comment on whether he believes these to be authorized relabel programs or not?

P.S. If I come across any J.D. DVRs out there at least I'll know who to ask... (Just kidding)

What leads you to believe that this is unauthorized?

And Dahua is not the one who is relabelling this for people who want a few cameras? It's this OEM who is 're-OEMing' the products?

Btw, Jon, who is this company?

Dahua definitely does not want random people illicitly relabeling their equipment.

This statement may be true in theory, but what would you have to do exactly to make it illicit?

Jon is showing programs where virtually any 'random' dealer of any size can have their Dahua product rebranded with their own logo automatically by multiple OEMs. Even assuming the OEMs are authorized by Dahua to do so, it hardly seems like a tightly controlled sales initiative.

More than that is the fact that, as also pointed out by Jon, there is a tool on the public Dahua website, with step by step instructions on how to change the logo/images shown on boot and video loss of the DVR/NVR. Moreover, there are literally hundreds of posts on their support forum from seemingly unidentified people asking how to rebrand/relogo the machines. They recieve the link to the tool no questions about their identity or product origin seemingly asked.

So to my original example of ordering product, from an Amazon merchant shipping in the U.S. (HD Security Store), who would I ask for permission? Should I ask if they are an authorized rebrander? Should I not use the public tool?

What exactly is Dahua's policy, I can't find it. Hik is stated clearly, going so far as to list specific merchants.

I do think that Dahua does not want Dahua branded merchandise to end up on store shelves in the U.S., because they don't want the U.S. OEM's to think that Dahua is selling around them, but besides that...

How about this vendor? Should you as an integrator, looking to slap on a logo, but not looking to do anything illicit or unauthorized, use them?

I think Dahua's reluctance to market in the USA is due to deals with OEMs. They must have agreements with the Qsee, Swann, ICRealtime crowd that they won't infringe on their turf. Just a guess.

John, do you know of any good (Dahua / OEM) partner in canada or USA that has great custommer service and bilingual tech support!

regards

Which two languages?

French and English, was emailed to me, passing on.

That's what I assumed. I think the one in FLA was a good chance at English and Spanish. That's why I asked.

Hi,

Sean at Nelly Security. com with EYEsurv which I think is Dahua seems to have a good reputation I don't know if he has bilingual support though.

Regards

Jim