IPVMU Installation Class - What To Cover?

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Brian Rhodes
Oct 09, 2017
IPVMU Certified

We are thinking about launching an installation course.  We already have several guides and surveys on best practices/tools/techniques, but we can pull it together as a fundamentals class.

Which topics would you like to see and which topics would be most helpful?  

The goal is that a person with no install experience in security could take this course and at the end have a chance to be certified, signifying they know enough to 'hold their own' in terms of common installation tasks.

Please comment with your suggestions below.  Thanks!

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U
Undisclosed #1
Oct 09, 2017
IPVMU Certified

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UI
Undisclosed Integrator #2
Oct 11, 2017

These items based on what we've put together for our our own small presentation focusing on the physical portion of installs :

Cable Pulling - Do and Dont's

Terminations - How to

Equipment mounting - Best Practices, types of mounts,  types of tools and fasteners.   

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UI
Undisclosed Integrator #3
Oct 11, 2017

I find it confusing that IPVM is moving in so many directions at the same time. What is the real focus or purpose in IPVM? Industry blog? Whine sheet? Do you still have that clear mindset that was established when this was first developed? Or is IPVM doing what it has to do to raise loot because of a 'dip' in subscribers? I understand that running Hikvision articles boosts 'hits' because of their premium Industry position as we expect to see those daily  weekly.

 

Cover Industry news not fake news!

NOTICE: This comment has been moved to its own discussion: I Find It Confusing That IPVM Is Moving In So Many Directions At The Same Time

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Brian Rhodes
Oct 11, 2017
IPVMU Certified

Do you install cameras, access, and networks? Or are you moving in too many directions?

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UI
Undisclosed Integrator #3
Oct 12, 2017

Did you understand my comment to be of a hostile nature? I assumed as a subscriber we were free to ask questions of the commentator and comment freely. Too many directions, you ask?  I have 62 employees so I have the ability and professional staff to accomplish many things of my choosing. Was your comment intended to insult the subscriber?

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Undisclosed #1
Oct 12, 2017
IPVMU Certified

Take a Hik, please.

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UI
Undisclosed Integrator #2
Oct 12, 2017

While your comment IMO wasn't hostile, it was and I think intended to be, a more than a little on the snarky side.  In either case if it was just an instance of the internet losing the underlining tone or not I don’t think your question is without merit.  I don’t think the response was hostile or insulting at all but rather a specific question that I found relevant.  Certainly IPVM’s coverage has expanded over the years to include those very topics listed in the question and they are relevant to me therefore making the site more valuable to me.  I too get a little burned out by some of the more opinionated or inflammatory articles which can rapidly lead to perceived “feuds” that undermine some of the credibility here.  I personally come here primarily for the reviews and shootouts, the tools, some of the forum question and answers and lastly for general industry news.  But I do think many find value in the classes and I support that offering.  While most classes such as an installation 101 course may not be useful to me I don't have to pay attend them.  But I have sent several of my employees through some of the current class offerings as part of their growth therefore helping my company performance.   Just my two cents. 

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Avatar
Brian Rhodes
Oct 12, 2017
IPVMU Certified

Just stop.  You know me well enough (you've taken multiple IPVM classes) to know I'm one of the least hostile people you'll ever meet.  :)

Our training courses are in response to our membership's core business.

If your business is cameras, access, and networks, and/or installing them, then of course it belongs in our training portfolio.

To your question about 'focus', we've had various installation resources and guides on the site for many years.  The class would assemble the information IPVM already has, refine it where needed, and present it as a training class. 

 

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Undisclosed #1
Oct 12, 2017
IPVMU Certified

Cover Industry news not fake news!

An interesting idea, but when? Maybe in between "Tools" and "Best Practices"?

Should it be on the final as well?

UI
Undisclosed Integrator #4
Oct 12, 2017

Sometimes, when designing a system, whether surveillance or security, I encounter a challenging building and I need to give careful consideration as to how best to run wire. In residential, this can be slab floors, vaulted ceilings, no attic or crawlspace, and other construction obstacles.  In the alarm industry the challenge has been minimized with wireless products, but in the surveillance industry it is not that simple.  I've used decorative conduit, cut into wallboard, removed baseboards, and used closets and cabinets to hide wire runs.  For cameras I've had to find imaginative ways to mount them under eaves, and wish there were better brackets and mounts to accommodate the installation.

In commercial buildings, installation can be more flexible, and sometimes I encounter a challenge in the type of device to use.  I see where some installers wall mount dome cameras on buildings where weather will cloud the dome cover in just a few years, and these cameras are mounted at a height that will require a major effort to service.  I've found that a turret camera would hold up better than a wall mounted dome when exposed to weather.  But integrated IR's in either form factor will attract insects and cobwebs will soon form.

A commercial building with a flat roof, with parapet, and no attic will need cameras installed around the perimeter.  How would you run the wire? What type of wire would you choose? Conduit is needed, but what type?  PVC, EMT, Rigid?  Do you know how PVC reacts to sunlight?  Do you need to ground EMT and Rigid? Do you know the difference in indoor vs. outdoor EMT connectors?  Do you know how to run conduit on top of a flat roof?  How do you penetrate the roof and avoid a potential leak? How many wires can you run through a certain size and type of conduit?  How many bends can you make in conduit before you need a JB (junction box)? What is the code requirement? 

No installation will be the same, so an installer needs to have a plethora of ideas in which to get the job done.  There are many right ways to install and there are many wrong ways too.

 

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Avatar
Ari Erenthal
Oct 16, 2017
Chesapeake & Midlantic
  • Hand tools
  • Power tools
  • Tool maintenance
  • PPE and jobsite safety
  • Construction materiel 
  • Choosing wire pathways
  • Snaking methods
  • Piping
  • Trenching
  • Locating security devices
  • Mounting methods

 

 

U
Undisclosed #5
Oct 16, 2017

Penetrations.

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Brian Hampton
Oct 17, 2017
IPVMU Certified

Definitely cover applicable codes and standards.

Material selection. For example, when should you use CM, CMR, CMP? When to use flooded core or water tape? How to determine the cable's rating.

Grounding.

Surge Protection.

 

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UI
Undisclosed Integrator #6
Oct 17, 2017

Basic fiber knowledge seems to be a soft spot in our industry. I would hit the following:

1. Fiber types - OM1/2/3/4, OS1/2/3

2. Termination methods - unicam, fastcam, fusion splicing, etc.  no need to cover legacy connectors like hot melt.

3. Classification of fiber - conductive armored, non-conductive armored, plenum, non-plenum, etc.

4. Loss

5. Testing

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Joseph Marotta
Oct 17, 2017
IPVMU Certified

Also, ...connector types, connector housings, ISO and TIA standards relative to Fiber installation, termination and testing procedures.

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Sean Nelson
Oct 17, 2017
Nelly's Security

I think this is a genius idea.

- I think a good emphasis on best practices and tips on how to run wire through ceilings and walls would help alot as that IMO is some what of an art form.
- Time saving techniques on termination
- How to properly troubleshoot
- Bench Testing before installing (you would be in the top 1% if you did this, LOL)
- Getting as much done in your shop before going out to jobsite (you would be in top .005%)

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Joseph Marotta
Oct 17, 2017
IPVMU Certified

How about adding Installations on Light Poles?

UI
Undisclosed Integrator #4
Nov 23, 2017

I'm now dealing with a warehouse with insulated steel exterior wall panels.  I'll need to secure camera mounts at several outdoor positions on these walls.  Also, I'll be installing an outdoor alarm bell/box.  I see where exterior lights were installed some years ago and the methods used by the electrician to secure the lights are interesting.  It's as if the electrician couldn't decided on which method was best, so a few different methods were used.  The previous security integrator mounted an exterior camera and left a few holes around the camera, unsealed, which appear to be failed attempts.  I haven't taken down the old camera yet, so I don't know how it was finally secured.  All devices will be mounted between 10 - 15 feet high.

These walls appear to be more challenging than wood, stucco, or concrete.

Insulated steel wall panels have thin 24 - 26 gauge sheet metal separated by 3" void filled with fiberglass insulation.  These particular panels have a staggered pattern, high/low outside panel.  The panels are secured to the steel frame of the building with heavy duty rivets.  You can push on the panels and watch them flex inward, that's how thin they are.

Using self tapping sheet metal screws will provide little to none holding strength on such a thin gauge sheet metal and are easily stripped by over tightening.  In high winds these would obviously loosen and fail.

Drilling through and securing with a  bolt/washer/nut combo would provide good holding strength, but will compress and distort the exterior panel, and it may be difficult to seal against water infiltration.  (The electrician did a few of these, they are not consistent with the method, and it looks like there must be a better way than the way they did it.)

Using nut inserts, "nut serts", rivet nuts, seems to be the best way to secure these devices without compressing and distorting the panels.  But the holding strength is dependent on just one thin exterior metal sheet.  I'm leaning toward this method.

This is an example of the kinds of things that would be nice to discuss in a future class. 

 

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U
Undisclosed #1
Nov 23, 2017
IPVMU Certified

But the holding strength is dependent on just one thin exterior metal sheet. 

Maybe add a neodymium ring or disc magnet at the camera base to spread the load?

DB
Dean B
May 20, 2018
IPVMU Certified

I used to do steel studs, drywall, taping, t-bar ceilings for a living. Can you teach common sense? 

Some things to consider when teaching... 1) if you are drilling something, look behind the area you are drilling, I had to many rookies drill into water pipes etc. One new tech  drilled into customers freezer. 2) there is such a thing as forward and reverse on a drill 3) difference between drill and hammer drill 4) neatness counts 5) still lots of analog out there, need to know about BNC connectors 6) don't pull cat 5/6 by connecting to a back of a bobcat (yes, true story) 7) local laws, one area requires cable to be run via j-hooks only, where i live, that is not the case 8) tips and tricks for drilling from the outside in or vise versa of a commercial building or a home. 9) fishing... can be very much an art 10) hanging or mounting something heavy, I remember hanging tv's in bars in the late 90's 11) how to drill anchors into concrete and what type of anchors 

I am sure I will think of more...

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Avatar
Brian Rhodes
May 21, 2018
IPVMU Certified

 don't pull cat 5/6 by connecting to a back of a bobcat (yes, true story)

lol, I guess if you're not scraping roads with it, you might as well pull cables.

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Sean Patton
May 21, 2018

I had a cabling subcontractor get kicked off a big box new store build for using the owners Escalade in the building to pull main phone/fiber/coax trunks from the front of the store to the back... that was one of the hardest calls I ever had with a customer, just trying not to laugh.

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Avatar
Brian Rhodes
May 21, 2018
IPVMU Certified

UI
Undisclosed Integrator #7
May 21, 2018

How to clean up!

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