"IPVM Is Run By A Bloviating Industry Drop-Out Who Couldn't Make It In The Main Stream."

Last week, we had Person Sends In IPVM Sucks Video. This week, we have a guy who started a LinkedIn group against IPVM, declaring:

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About this group:

IPVM is run by a bloviating industry drop-out who couldn't make it in the main stream. Do your own homework and if you're an analyst member of the media or investor, PLEASE have the common sense to hire a professional to consult with. Don't depend on IPVM's uneducated rhetoric.

I don't know much about Goldring but he evidently carries SIA CEO Don Erickson's endorsement:

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IPVM is run by a bloviating industry drop-out who couldn't make it in the main stream.

Educated Rhetoric Scorecard

+1 for use of word bloviating

-2 for thinking main stream is two words

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It is funny all the haters out there. What is their suggested replacement? Where are you supposed to look for tests, discussion, etc.? IPCAMTALK? Trade magazines?

It is just like social media. You may not like everything you see. Keep scrolling.

Also, they are conflating Anti-company XYZ with the fact that right now, the industry is pretty anti-XYZ. You IPVM reports on it and gets accused of being anti...

That is called reporting.

If people are that against it, don't pay for a subscription. My guess is a bunch of people will initially join because it is free, but there won't be any actual discussion, posts, or anything worthwhile.

LOL

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I thought all of our industry failures worked at distributors or as manufacturer reps.....not IPVM.....

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what is his end game here?

I ask, because imo this is not a well-thought out endeavor.

unless Mr. Goldring imagines that he can convince all of us IPVM subscribers that his primarily ad hominem attacks have some kind of merit - and that IPVM has no value - the only real end game I can imagine is him looking stupid.

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I work for a manufacturer that has been on the receiving end of some of IPVM's less than flattering stories. We have also had some decent things written about us. Personally I've been a member for about 10 years, which is longer than I've been with my current employer. I give all this background to lend some perspective to what I'm about to write...

IPVM is a valuable resource to our industry. Nobody is going to agree with everything they write - nobody agrees with 100% of what Fox New reports or what The NY Times writes either. Sometimes I wish IPVM would not write some of the things that they do, but I don't have to read the articles I don't like.

If you don't like the content - don't subscribe to IPVM. It's pretty easy.

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Just so it's out there John; I had nothing to do with this one.... But have a super day.

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Sure, you were the innovator, these people are just trying to be like you!

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"

Nobody is going to agree with everything they write - nobody agrees with 100% of what Fox New reports or what The NY Times writes either. Sometimes I wish IPVM would not write some of the things that they do, but I don't have to read the articles I don't like.

If you don't like the content - don't subscribe to IPVM. It's pretty easy."

Don't forget to throw CNN, MSNBC, CNBC in there too or you may be considered a lefty.

The problem with the articles I "end up not liking" I've already wasted time reading in order to come to the conclusion I hated it. I can't get that time back. And yes there are many good articles too. I just hate investing valuable time in the garbage articles, only figuring out it was garbage after the fact. This is where better topic choices come into play by the bloggers. I'll need to improve my skimming skills in order to waste less time.

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Maybe if you cared a little more about being liked by others, this wouldn’t keep happening :)

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You got a point there....

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Those that can do, those can't teach rep

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And those who can’t rep, teach how to rep.

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And then they become VP of sales.

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To be fair, talking for a living is way more fun than working for a living. Pays better, too.

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what is his end game here?

In my experience, video and access control industry folks mostly tend to like IPVM while alarm industry folks mostly tend not to. Picking fights with Rapid Response and Jeff Zwirn caused a lot of bad blood, even if IPVM was right both times. Goldring is locally prominent in the alarm industry.

Posting undisclosed because I don't need to start no drama.

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"Educate your self" "Do your own research".

I won't speak for Peter, because I do not know him, but usually when people are using these kinds of words in an argument, they don't actually want you to be properly informed. They just want you to feel/think the same way about what ever topic as they do.

In my own opinion, and I am just basing this on previous interactions with people who have used rhetoric like that (so my opinion very well may be wrong), but IPVM (John in particular) has said or reported on something (likely SIA related) that Peter disagrees with. A potential customer, or maybe a colleague has been talking about it, and won't take Peters advice/input on the topic. So now he's upset, because he may be a wealth of industry knowledge, but he thinks he's the only fountain for that knowledge. Or him and like minded people anyway.

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Yeah I agree. Perhaps fear? I started in the alarm industry, mostly residential monitoring but the company I worked for did commercial work as well. It's an industry that really serves little purpose anymore other than just taking money from people every month. There is hardly any skill involved in installation anymore either. It's all wireless with two sided tape, connected to Wi-Fi, or a sim card for monitoring.

It used to be you know peace of mind, cops will attend. The sign/sticker alone will ward off criminals! But I don't really think that's true anymore. Police in my city won't respond unless there are two separate zones, and even then it's not a quick response. Oh well then we will send a security guard! They can't do anything, legally. Observe and report, and then still wait for police response.

And then it's unlikely they will find the people who broke into your house.

Fire monitoring? Sure. Still not perfect, but good. Fire department dispatches quick.

Water and temperature monitoring? Okay, but the alarm company isn't doing anything other than alerting you, if you (the customer) don't have plans in place(family, neighbors, contractors, what ever) your pipes will still freeze, your house will still flood.

And then even if people still want all that, they can do it themselves now. Most people realize the cops aren't going to be showing up if their alarm goes off, so why pay some company $15-60(?) per month to tell me my alarm is going off, when my smart phone can do that.

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There is hardly any skill involved in installation anymore either. It's all wireless with two sided tape, connected to Wi-Fi, or a sim card for monitoring.

That's true in high volume residential (ie the sector most likely to be eaten alive by Simplisafe and other DIY solutions), but the custom residential and enterprise alarm sectors are both a lot more complex than that.

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I thought the NY Times was pretty liberal. But yes, CNN, MSNBC, CNBC, etc... should all be included.

As to your point about reading articles and then decided you don't like it, these are about a 2-5 minute read, and you can usually tell the content by the title/headline what the gist of the message is.

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Well said brother. I completely agree with you. Back in the 90's the sign was typically all it took to deter the burglar to the next house. The residential industry has evolved tremendously in the past 5 years or so. Wireless, wireless, wireless. I get it, why run cables when wireless will work and is really good these days and battery life is 3 to 5 years or longer.

It doesn't take much to install a wireless system these days and why would you get into a 3 - 5 year contract/lease with one of the big guys these days!

Yet there will probably still be the high end systems that a customer is willing to pay for all the ginger bread you can offer in a system.

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u dont have any haters, then you aint makin a big enough impact

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Sean, you have any groups dedicated to making fun of you? :)

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Yes! On facebook we have plenty. And our favorite: "undisclosed 1" and all of his/her cronies.

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The owner of the group "IPVM is nonsense. No Relevant Experience all they do is spew hate" is almost certainly violating the LinkedIn Professional Community Policies which all users accept when they use the platform/service. Disparaging the journalists at IPVM is just straight up unprofessional, and accusing them of 'hate' in this day and age would seem to imply a bit of a disconnect with current events and public discourse (not to mention legislation).

For the record I am a manufacturer rep and can attest to having received, as a previous commentator mentioned, fair coverage by IPVM that has run the range from net positive to negative -- and usually fairly so. Importantly I have found the team to be extremely responsive to (constructive) criticism and/or requests for corrections. Anyone with contrary experiences, respectfully, could (1) consider cancelling their subscription and/or (2) write/post a story about the specifics. Simply insulting the entire staff (and accusing them of bias in the worst way) is entirely unprofessional, and is frankly embarrassing.

Platforms like IPVM are a valuable resource. Attacking journalists, as a group*, is dangerous ground. (*Pun intended)

[undisclosed since this is my personal opinion and not that of my employer]

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And our favorite: "undisclosed 1" and all of his/her cronies.

Sorry about the delay in responding, apparently all my cronies have taken the day off…

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Maybe we should all join this group & make the current 2 members feel more loved & wanted.

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That is admittedly amazing!

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He used to work for the same company I did - I italicized work cuz I really couldn't tell you what he did. I believe he was fired.

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Social media and non-verbal communication often leads to static and friction.

Also: water is wet.

A tactic I see used quite a bit on Twitter is that when a moron (me) posts something that rattles someone on a piedestal (lots of followers, can't help retweeting anyone praising them etc.), they will often screencap your tweet, and make a condescening comment about how ignorant I am (which is undoutably true). It's the same strategy the teacher would use to try to embarras kids in school - "come to the board Morten, so we can show the WHOLE class how stupid you are" (my tactic was to then soil myself right then and there).

On Twitter, what follows then, is a whole bunch of comments pointing out that, yes indeed, Morten is a fool, just look at his stupid comment.

Not pleasant at all.

Now I'm too old, tired, and I've learned that I can't convince the congregation to change their minds by pointing out how illogical and borderline insane their views are. They've heard pleads like mine a million times, and they've been conditioned to be wary and suspicious of people outside the tribe.

I've been blocked by a few people too. When they block me, I do what every other small minded and petty asshole does. I post a screenshot or comment, boasting that I, Morten, had to power to make an assistant push two buttons to shut me up. It fills me with a kind of hollow pride.

If I was a larger person; a better mensch, more decent, and more reflective, I probably wouldn't be trolling random people on twitter, and thus I wouldn't even be in a situation where I have long winded arguments with strangers about things I have no influence over, and that won't influence me one bit. Perhaps I wouldn't post passive-agressive, and veiled snarks that I know (secretly hope) will rile people up.

I've worked remote for many years, and will often prefer writing an email to calling people on the phone. The one thing I learned is that pointing out mistakes or errors, in writing, can upset people much more than intended. And that was all I learned btw.

There's just something unsettling about seeing an error or a mistake pointed out in writing, and especially on the Internet where we expect that nothing ever gets deleted (it does - just not the juicy stuff).

It's a hell of a lot worse if the disagreement is between two people who have vastly different clout. Most good leaders will refrain from pointing out problems in plenum (that's a cool academic word in Danish, but in English the word might be "public"), and instead have a quiet 1-on-1. And with good reason - it's the opposite approach of the sadistic teacher.

It's damn near impossible to resolve a spat over email, and on social media its probably harder.

There are people I think are idiots, and people that are dangerous idiots. But you're not going to convince an idiot of anything. Hell, you don't even know if YOU are the idiot.

So I guess that if you run an honest media company, then you have to point out flaws and issues IN PUBLIC, which then makes people angry. We don't need another outlet sponsored by the industry, with the sole purpose of regurtitating press releases full of self-praise and self-admiration.

Not sure if there's a point in there somewhere.

Have a nice day.

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The video is even better ;)

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Chit!

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Most good leaders will refrain from pointing out problems in plenum…

Btw, in the states, “pointing out problems in plenum” legally falls to the AHJ :)

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The upside down IPVM logo is especially LOL. Odds that all 3 members are Verkada bros?

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Odds that all 3 members are Verkada bros?

my guess:

1. Lee Odess

2. Janet Fenner-Dabice

3. Jeffrey Zwirn, CPP, CFPS, CFE, SET, FASI-T, CHPA-IV, MBAT

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The upside down IPVM logo is especially LOL.

WAdl

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IPVM is run by a bloviating industry drop-out who couldn't make it in the main stream

I see this group is really gaining traction on linkedin. They can honestly say they have had a 50% increase in membership in just 24 hours, very impressive. Personally I suspect that this is because of all the publicity they have received on IPVM.

The group now has 3 members.

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"1. Lee Odess

2. Janet Fenner-Dabice

3. Jeffrey Zwirn, CPP, CFPS, CFE, SET, FASI-T, CHPA-IV, MBAT"

I wonder if publicly naming these people in association with said topic and no proof on a public site like ipvm could be grounds for litigation against ipvm for allowing it to exist. Yes, maybe it could be construed as libel. I'll have to see what a few attorney friends have to say....

Maybe ipvm has a case against LinkedIn too... Wow this could be fun.

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I wonder if publicly naming these people in association with said topic and no proof on a public site like ipvm could be grounds for litigation against ipvm for allowing it to exist.

please spare me.

all of these people have been talked about in other strings here on IPVM... and the fact that all 3 have negative opinions of IPVM and John specifically is no secret - which is what makes it an obvious joke.

I also note that you left out that "my guess" prefaced the list of 3 I mentioned in the joke...

you have zero understanding of what libel is - and your attorney friends will laugh in your face if you are dumb enough to actually ask them.

.

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attorney friends

I didn't realise that attorneys had friends

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Lee, don't be ridic.

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"you have zero understanding of what libel is - and your attorney friends will laugh in your face if you are dumb enough to actually ask them."

Maybe they will; I'm stupid like that. I question everything. And actually I understand libel...oh I understand it...

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"I didn't realise that attorneys had friends"

Of course they do; you pay them, they're your friend ;)

Unlike here, we pay them; they're not our friends.

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= 8.5/10

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I wonder if publicly naming these people in association with said topic and no proof on a public site like ipvm could be grounds for litigation against ipvm for allowing it to exist.

Yes, actually.

26 U.S. Code § 102 - Libel, Slander and Defamation

a) Any person who shall falsely utter and speak, or falsely write and publish, of and concerning any person of chaste character, any words derogatory of such person's character regarding virtue and chastity, or

b) Any person who shall make an unproven and unseemly association, especially in an iterative format, between such person and another unrelated such a person, in, around or through a public or paywalled site, shall not be allowed to exist.

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Thanks UD#1, I was too lazy to look up the code...yes I'm that lazy. Wondering if my attorneys would still laugh at me for asking the question UD#4....maybe after Martini#3. Funny thing is lawyers usually don't laugh at the questions (no matter how seemingly absurd); they like the challenge (because in their minds "we can win this"), and the currency that accompanies the challenge.

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no, actually.

6's comment referred to IPVM's culpability for simply being the platform that is 'allowing it to exist' - with 'it' being my joke. which is a ridiculous premise.

can Twitter be charged with libel for hosting 'derogatory words' that individuals post? no. can Facebook? same answer.

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"can Twitter be charged with libel for hosting 'derogatory words' that individuals post? no. can Facebook? same answer."

Doesn't matter, they are entities, like ipvm, and can be "sued", maybe not "charged", simply to waste as much of their financial resources defending the entity as possible. This might be the fun part for some. Even if nothing else comes of it; a little financial pain is "my guess"

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you are an idiot.

sue me.

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"sue me."

Disclose yourself and maybe, just for fun someone may.

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no, actually.

6's comment referred to IPVM's culpability for simply being the platform that is 'allowing it to exist'

Yeah, but it’s funnier my way.

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"As to your point about reading articles and then decided you don't like it, these are about a 2-5 minute read, and you can usually tell the content by the title/headline what the gist of the message is. "

I still like to give the blog a chance. But the many 2-5 minute reads do tend to add up and at my rate, it can get costly. I suppose in the end it was my choice to make the read....

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Your troll powers are impressive. Did no one else look up 26 U.S. Code § 102? Or actually read the "quote"?

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I've never seen John Honovich and Waluigi in the same room together at the same time and now I'm suspicious.

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I had to circle back and give 1 a funny... I stone cold missed the parody because I didn't look it up. well-played 1!

the lack of hyperlink should have clued me in... but I was probably too worried about being sued and missed it. ; )

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YES, great points. It points out a real issue by the way:

Wireless, wireless, wireless. I get it, why run cables when wireless will work and is really good these days and battery life is 3 to 5 years or longer.

Wireless wireless wireless SUCKS.. as do motion alerts and all-in-one cameras with no resolution or lens selection options. "One size fits Few" option.

So why 2 standards for commercial vs high end residential? Why are shitty systems "good enough" for SmartHome surveillance? They're not. Why are they sold then?

Customer not willing to pay?- maybe.. but not my experience and if yes then that's not your customer.

Lazy installers?.. who don't know how to sell, or position value against Ring, Nest, or explain why alert-on-motion sucks? ~Yep. They install some shitty cloud junk and run before the customer realizes what's happened. It's the 2021 version of truck slammer.

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Congratulations John and the IPVM team!!!! When a person or group starts getting this kind of attack coverage it usually means you're hitting someone a little too close to their BS Bone and they're fearful you'll expose them one day. Better they should "kill" you off before you can do that. If I had the time and was an investigative journalist I'd make a project out of digging into these folks and try to uncover their dirty little secret that IPVM is threatening to expose them for. I'd take this as a win!!!!

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"the lack of hyperlink should have clued me in... but I was probably too worried about being sued and missed it. ; )"

Yep, I missed it too. That's what lazy got me.

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"little too close to their BS Bone and they're fearful you'll expose them one day. Better they should "kill" you off before you can do that"

That was why I once asked John if he might want to funnel some of our subscription funds to a personal security detail;)

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Wow. Butthurtitis in its most bloviated form. Haha- I used it in a sentence, I think.

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A personal attack, and defamation, followed up by a "hire a professional like myself" statement.

I don't think I could have made a more unprofessional post even If I tried.

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