Subscriber Discussion

Integrators: Do You Use Two Way Radios?

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Ari Erenthal
Nov 22, 2016

Back in the day, every integrator I knew had Nextel for two-way communication. Not only did it offer unlimited talk time in the days when cell service minutes were more expensive than today, but installation crews could also use them as wide broadcast talkaround devices- walkie talkies, in other words. Today, Nextel is no more, and I see more and more installers buying and using walkie talkies.

There are 3 types of radios most commonly used - FRS, MURS and GMRS, which we overview inside.

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Ari Erenthal
Nov 22, 2016

FRS radios are cheap, lightweight, and have batteries that last all day, but are mostly appropriate for very short ranges- say, a single residential building, or for a technician on the top of a scissor lift to make sure the technician on the ground feeds out cables correctly. FRS radio two packs are widely available and are usually priced less than $30. FRS radios do not require a license, and are limited to 0.5 watts of power. They may not have detachable antennas or interchangeable parts (such as microphones or headsets), making it difficult to purchase accessories or extend the range of the radio.

MURS radios, also known as ‘business radios’, are more versatile, longer range, often ruggedized, and significantly more expensive. They output 2 watts of power, offer interchangeable accessories, and do not require a license. MURS radios can connect to external or exterior antennas, including vehicle mounted and building mounted ones. MURS radios are ideal for large but fixed operations, so you’ll see retail and hospitality operations use them. MURS radios are usually about $200 new, and about $100 used. MURS radios last for a long time, and so used radios in good condition can often be found on eBay and the like.

GMRS radios require an FCC license (but not a test), which costs $85 and are renewable every 5 years. Portable and mobile radios are both available, and these radios put out 5 watts. The BaoFeng UV-5R is a favorite of survivalist, preppers, and other internet radio enthusiasts, which means that this radio has a wide range of third party accessories and a massive body of tips, tricks, and hacks available. GMRS radios cost about $25-$50, but require a significant investment in time, as they need to be programed first using CHIRP.

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Undisclosed #1
Nov 22, 2016
IPVMU Certified

Today Nextel is no more...

But PTT, Push-To-Talk, is alive and well. Sprint bought Nextel, they call it DirectConnect, here is one of the phones, note yellow button on side:

Group talk as well. Other devices using app. ATT also offers similar.

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Michael Miller
Nov 22, 2016

We use 2-way radios while on customers site when we don't have wifi or cell service. Otherwise we use Voxer all the time.

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Undisclosed Integrator #2
Nov 22, 2016

We use cell phones primarily. However as we are on a lot of industrial sites that are 60+ years old and sites downtown that are even older we have quite a few cheap radios in each van.

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Michael Miller
Nov 22, 2016

Yea alot of are large customers don't have cell coverage in all parts of the building. 2ways come in ready handy.

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Undisclosed Integrator #3
Nov 23, 2016

Looking for Motorola radios. Any ones in particular anybody uses?

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jason oneal
Nov 23, 2016

We use Motorola DTR650. They are digital with great range. Very clear audio.

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Matt Ion
Nov 23, 2016

GMRS radios require an FCC license

True in the US. GMRS doesn't require a license in Canada. As with most things, check your local laws.

GMRS uses most of the same frequencies as FRS, but allows higher output power. GMRS licenses are also issued only to individuals, not businesses. I believe the license fee is now $90.

The BaoFeng UV-5R is a favorite

This is not a GMRS radio; it's a full-on dual-band programmable unit that covers most of the 2m (VHF) and 70cm (UHF) amateur and commercial bands (marine too, I think). In the UHF 70cm band, it CAN be programmed for FRS/GMRS frequencies, but this isn't really legal, as it doesn't meet several other FCC requirements for FRS and GMRS radios (for example, FRS radios may not have a removable antenna).

The UV-5R and its ilk are "grey market" in Canada and the US; they're "not really" illegal, but it's very easy to use them illegally.

There's some interesting discussion on the legality of these types of handsets here.

I have a few sets of FRS/GMRS radios, I've tried using them for work... biggest problem I find is that they require one hand to operate. Since wireless voice plans are now so cheap with lots of airtime included, we tend to prefer just using our cell phones, along with a bluetooth headset, to leave both hands free to work (especially handy when pulling wire).

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Ari Erenthal
Nov 23, 2016

Thanks for the comments, Matt!

As with most things, check your local laws.

Always good advice.

biggest problem I find is that they require one hand to operate

You can get a VOX (voice activated, for anyone unfamiliar) headset. For example, Baofeng makes this one for the UV-5R.

Since wireless voice plans are now so cheap with lots of airtime included, we tend to prefer just using our cell phones, along with a bluetooth headset, to leave both hands free to work (especially handy when pulling wire).

Assuming you have cell service.

MI
Matt Ion
Nov 24, 2016

You can get a VOX (voice activated, for anyone unfamiliar) headset. For example, Baofeng makes this one for the UV-5R.

Yes, but those are all wired. I've tried a wired headset on my phone as well, and find the wire gets in the way - either it's getting caught on things, or it's limiting my movement. If someone came out with a FRS/GMRS radio with Bluetooth, THAT would be something to write home about.

Assuming you have cell service.

Well so far, I don't think I've done a single job where there was NO service... MAYBE one where I was working solo. But yes, valid point.
MC
Marty Calhoun
Nov 23, 2016
IPVMU Certified

We are a Commercial dealer for Motorola so we exclusively use many different styles of the high end radios.

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Ari Erenthal
Nov 24, 2016

What models do you use, Marty?

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Kyle Folger
Nov 24, 2016
IPVMU Certified

I bought these (RD200U UHF Two-Way Radio) in 2014 because they are durable (didn't need waterproofing), long range, rechargeable with a cradle, and support an ear piece. I store them in a Pelican case when not in use:

I had them programmed with only three channels so it was hard to screw up and hard to accidentally change the channel. They have since upgraded to newer models but I could always add the new models and have them work with the ones I currently have. They were $150/ea but were worth it.

A friend of mine has a production company and he had purchased the much larger waterproof versions from Two Way Direct which is how I came in contact with them. I wanted something between was my friend purchased and what Walmart carried.

I recently bought this to hold the radio:

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B019S1H5UO/ref=oh_aui_search_detailpage?ie=UTF8&psc=1

I clip it onto my ClipTech tool belt so I don't loose it when having to crawl in tight spaces since the two way radios do come with a belt clip.

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Francis Lurch
Nov 28, 2016
IPVMU Certified

We have had excellent performance from Cobra "microTALK" two way radios and no problem in old multi storey buildings with very thick concrete walls.

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Kyle Folger
Nov 29, 2016
IPVMU Certified

Can you link to the ones you use? I have no problems getting through concrete walls. That's more of a factor of the radio power and the radio frequency. Looking at the Cobra microTALK radios in general, it looks like they have too many buttons on them for my tastes. I've use some cobra radios where the channel kept getting bumped and changed.

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Matt Ion
Nov 29, 2016

This symbol is your friend! Almost all radios have it, not necessarily sharing the same button. Press and hold for a few seconds, the radio beeps, and... no more worries about inadvertently changing channels :)

As far as frequency and power, ALL FRS radios operate in the 462-467 MHz range and are limited to 500mW output. GMRS uses the same frequencies, with output limited to 5W in the US, 2W in Canada.

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Kyle Folger
Nov 29, 2016
IPVMU Certified

The radios I use are limited at 5W. They have a volume know/power and frequency knob. I like the simplicity. Sometimes simple things that I always have to do such as remembering to lock the radio annoys me which is why I believe I paid more for reliability and simplicity.

I also believe the Cobra radios I used didn't have that lock button.

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Roman Dabrowski
Nov 29, 2016

Kind of related question - has anyone every seen or used a good quality combination microphone/speaker with a PTT button that could plug into an IPhone?

I would like to have my Iphone inside my jacket and be able to have the mic/spkr outside my jacket to communicate on a call.

PS - I don't want to use an earpiece as they are hard to hear with and hard to mute!

Thanks!

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Kyle Folger
Nov 29, 2016
IPVMU Certified

This isn't exactly what you talked about but I saw this product on Facebook a few months back that looked interesting because it will work without cell service which is the biggest problem with using cell phones for two way communication.

https://www.beartooth.com/

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