Camera Install Training Wall - What Do You Think?

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John Scanlan
•May 09, 2018
IPVM • IPVMU Certified

We are starting a new series of reports on the installation of security devices.  

To demonstrate this we will be using the demonstration wall shown below.  The wall accepts a half sheet of drywall, which can be hung by one person using the bottom plate to stage it.  To ensure the frame would not be destroyed eyebolts and large washers replace drywall screws to secure drywall to the frame:

The first improvement for the demo wall planned is to add studs spaced 16" on center.

We will start by creating tutorials on the installation of varied form factor cameras and the associated installation methods, tools, and hardware used.

What suggestions do you have?

 

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Undisclosed #1
•May 09, 2018

What suggestions do you have?

Metal studs in the middle, to better represent commercial buildings, and issues with horizontal runs across studs (grommets, etc).

Use of various anchor types to affix mounts where no studs are available, as well as proper anchors for metal studs.

Cutting holes in drywall with minimal dust produced.

Methods for covering mis-placed screw/anchor holes efficiently :)

Firestop caulk.

Use of old-work boxes and low-voltage rings.

 

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Brian Rhodes
•May 09, 2018
IPVMU Certified
In reply to Undisclosed #1

Thanks, good suggestions here.

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Brian Rhodes
•May 09, 2018
IPVMU Certified

One aspect that Scanlan thought about was the ability to mount up different materials as mounting surfaces.

It's drywall now for this first round (box/dome surface mounts on drywall, recessed domes) but he can reskin the frame with R-panel or sheetmetal to simulate commercial buildings and so on.

We'll be able to show how to properly back (with unistrut or similar) an exterior surface mounted camera.

Another thing we're planning for is snaking walls for cables with fishtape and rods.

We might need to tweak some things to make it useful, like how to hook a cable lead in the wall, or drill holes in the sill plates, and doing cutouts for jboxes or access points, but this 'wall' is a good place to start.

Also, I can't wait until Scanlan demos pulling cables in a sprayfoam insulated wall section!  Yay!  His misery makes me so happy!

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Undisclosed #1
•May 09, 2018
In reply to Brian Rhodes

Along those lines, expanding this to drop ceilings and "industrial" ceilings, including using long pipes/conduit to drop cameras down would be good. For drop ceilings in particular, California code compliance for earthquake safety would also be worth demonstrating.

 

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Undisclosed #2
•May 09, 2018

No suggestions at this points, just kudos for doing this ...

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Brad Peterson
•May 09, 2018

Great idea.

consider insulation issues, especially when installing on an outside wall.

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Kyle Folger
•May 09, 2018
IPVMU Certified

I would say demonstrating EIFS installation that has backer board and no plywood where you are able to get to the backside of the wall to add a backer. We have done this a few times:

1. We used threaded rod
2. PVC to go around the threaded rod and hit the backer board and be flush with the surface to avoid compressing the EIFS.
3. The PVC was held in and sealed with construction adhesive.
4. The PVC was filled with silicone
5. Locknuts and washers were used on the exterior to the wall plate and the back of the wall had a spanner between the studs. We used slotted angle brackets for this.
6. All exterior hardware was stainless.

If there is a plywood backer it is still a good idea to use spacers to avoid compressing the EIFS.

I took down a corner bracket on EIFS that was installed as a retrofit. It held an old analog PTZ. I'm not quite sure what if anything actually held the PTZ in place but possibly sealant and the long length of the bolt. They were lag bolts but some of them felt like they were held by nothing.

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Undisclosed #3
•May 09, 2018

Are you going to have proper instruction on hanging cameras to ACT with drywall screws that have mostly stripped out the holes, leaving a nice visible gap between the camera and ceiling? That seems to be a common install method around here. 

Seriously, show people how to use machine screws with junction boxes, mudrings, gang box adapters etc. Maybe a rigid box support across studs. 

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Ty Mullen
•May 10, 2018
COR Security, Inc.
In reply to Undisclosed #3

If you do that then you need to teach the manufactures the importance of designing cameras that properly mount up to jboxes. 

Just seems more and more don't. Really frustrating.

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Michael McRoy
•May 10, 2018
In reply to Ty Mullen

Ty-

 You are 100 % on manufacturers lack of designing cameras that will mount on electrical boxes, drywall rings. Clinton Electronics has excellent mounting with their cameras especially the Vandal X Series which will mount to any type of electrical box right out of the package. It seems like the industry as a whole never addresses terminating wiring if you have more than two conductors. How many times have we seen installers try to get 5-6 conductors under one screw ?

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Kyle Folger
•May 10, 2018
IPVMU Certified
In reply to Michael McRoy

I'm sure the mounting might be great. However, Clinton still seems to be primarily analog. I only see 4 IP cameras listed and a lot of SDI. I have no issue with SDI, but I haven't installed it nor will I install it in the future for CCTV applications. For professional video, SDI is great.

What cameras does Clinton carry that you are currently using. If analog, what is the use case for still using this? For me, I think the Clinton monitor mounts are nice, but I wouldn't be using their IP cameras because they don't seem to have a selection and if I must install analog, it would be CVI or TVI. It's been years since I've installed a new SD analog camera on a new install.

Do you have a picture of the 5-6 conductors under one screw? I'm trying to picture this and I can't.

I agree with you and Ty about the compatibility with standard electrical boxes. However, some cameras are really just too small to use with standard fittings. Many of the Hikvision cameras give you an adapter plate. Many of the Avigilon camera domes are larger and have the appropriate holes on the back. I have seen other manufacturer's sell the adapter plate separately. 

I often see bullets used indoors and I haven't seen many plates for this. I haven't really looked though, as I can probably count on two hands how many times I have installed bullets indoors that weren't for a temporary setup.

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Michael McRoy
•May 10, 2018
In reply to Kyle Folger

 I should have been clear on my response regarding multiple conductors under a terminal screw that I was referring to Intrusion panels.

 I agree about Clinton having a very limited selection for the i.p. cameras. There are still plenty of analog cameras still out there that's why I use the Clinton Vandal X series dome cameras no adapters are needed comes ready to mount on any standard electrical box or drywall ring.

Regarding I.P. cameras I've been installing Arecont, Axis and Bosch for new installs and replacements.

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Kyle Folger
•May 10, 2018
IPVMU Certified
In reply to Michael McRoy

Thanks. Now that makes sense. Almost every intrusion panel I see is an explosion. I just didn’t want to assume that’s what you were referring to.

on analog cameras, I would agree that there may be more labor involved if simply replacing an existing analog camera that had been mounted previously on a junction box. If I have an analog camera go out, I often replace it with an HD analog camera. The customer likes seeing HD with existing cable and will often want to replace more cameras and the recorder. But they often don’t line up with standard boxes. I often don’t get the luxury of replacing an analog camera that was on a junction box. I find them generally installed poorly to begin with and the cabling wasn’t ran properly.

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Ty Mullen
•May 10, 2018
COR Security, Inc.
In reply to Michael McRoy

OK I don't want to derail this thread to far beyond the original topic. But can we also get manufactures to make enclosures little larger so we have more room for cable management. 

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Shannon Davis
•May 18, 2018
IPVMU Certified
In reply to Ty Mullen

Yes indeed. They keep making cameras smaller and smaller leaving no room to plug in the patch cable and if you can you have now just "Bent" the rules for data cabling.

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Undisclosed #3
•May 10, 2018
In reply to Ty Mullen

Maybe custom mud rings for those compact cameras? We can dream right?

Another thing I have noticed more and more, PVC Junction Boxes used in lieu of manufacturers weatherproof backbox when running surface conduit.... even on manufacturers that offer a weatherproof backbox.

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Shannon Davis
•May 18, 2018
IPVMU Certified
In reply to Undisclosed #3

That is funny. A couple of years ago we had a tech hang an old Dell 22" monitor attached to an articulating monitor mount to sheet rock and used, wait for it, red molly's. The amazing thing is it didn't fall off the wall till about 12 hours later. Needless to say he doesn't work here anymore.

DB
Dean B
•May 20, 2018
IPVMU Certified

I would have some steel studs in there as well. Maybe regular gauge and heavy gauge?? I run into all kinds. 

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