Subscriber Discussion

I Buy At Every Sale That HIKVISION Provides, Many Of Those 100K+

MC
Marty Calhoun
May 12, 2017
IPVMU Certified

U#5 you must not understand business. Buy quality products with excellent LOCAL support teams for best price and sell at a REASONABLE margin. I have never "slammed a Trunk" as a matter of fact I buy at every sale that HIKVISION provides, many of those 100K + so to accuse those who have decided to purchase product simply because it is on sale inferior is only due to your misfortune by not being a HIKVISION dealer.

NOTICE: This comment was moved from an existing discussion: Hikvision Mass Calling Dealers For Flash Sale - Smart Or Not?

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JH
John Honovich
May 12, 2017
IPVM

Say what you will but Marty knows how to work the system. Think about how much extra profits Marty is making doing this - few hundred thousand a year. He'd buy the products anyway but he takes the extra profits.

Yes, the cybersecurity problems and the Chinese government ownership should be concerns but if you don't care about them, this is the textbook plan on how to profit.

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MM
Michael Miller
May 12, 2017

Marty is laughing all the way to the bank. 

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JH
John Honovich
May 12, 2017
IPVM

Marty is laughing all the way to the bank.

ALWAYS....

And what kind of sale will Hikvision do now? There may be some serious laughing coming up.

MC
Marty Calhoun
May 12, 2017
IPVMU Certified

They dont need to, we will continue to support HIKVISION with a price HIKE. To many other factors are positive besides the REASONABLE price point. Smart folks do not buy by price. I have said this before and now again, product quality and excellent LOCAL support mean alot.

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JH
John Honovich
May 12, 2017
IPVM

we will continue to support HIKVISION with a price HIKE

In fairness, that's easy to say when you know that's not coming ;)

But I do believe you would pay even more for Hikvision. That's my point to Hikvision. They obviously do have loyal customers so why lose money giving these across the board sales when the loyal customers are going to buy anyway?

MC
Marty Calhoun
May 12, 2017
IPVMU Certified

We do care, We care no less than anyone else, probably more than many. We choose to hire professional networking experts (when needed) to design the best cyber security components NECESSARY on a job by job basis. We engineer IP Video systems best so we stick to that line of work as 90% of systems are LOCAL anyway.

I find it alarming that so many dealers believe that they can read a book or do a little OJT and think they have grasped the very complex world of network communications and Cyber-Security on the scale of a WAN architecture, not the case for us, we use a professional that has taken the time and expense to be educated and keeps abreast of new technologies as they come. We dont waste payroll on in-house Einsteins that guess what is the best practice.

As far as system installations go we find the majority are local, will always be local, so all of the above is in play occasionally, so  why not use HIKVISION? IPVM will tell you the quality is there, the support chain cannot be beaten, so why keep beating your head against the wall, fighting the inevitable, losing job after job just to say you use a high priced something and have a penny for a margin?

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U
Undisclosed #3
May 12, 2017
IPVMU Certified

...we use a professional that has taken the time and expense to be educated and keeps abreast of new technologies as they come. We dont waste payroll on in-house Einsteins that guess what is the best practice.

You don't design your own networks?

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UM
Undisclosed Manufacturer #1
May 12, 2017

Marty, how many of those cameras have YOU installed on the the US Naval Base in Norfolk, Virginia?

UM
Undisclosed Manufacturer #2
May 12, 2017

Marty seems to be in it for the money, of course you can't blame him for, and I'm sure he is a a good law abiding American citizen. Based on that I am sure he will also notify his clients within the government atmosphere about the recent DHS findings, the score of 10 out of 10, and recommend alternative products as the ones he sold are 'unsafe'. I'm more concerned however for his other clients where he supplied Hik products that are also shaky at best. If the American government no longer wants to be associated with Hik should the 'regular' user do the same? On a side note just heard from the horse's mouth that one of the largest independent SI's in this territory has dropped Hik 'like a hot potato', their words, not mine.

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MC
Marty Calhoun
May 12, 2017
IPVMU Certified

Actually, not long ago I had a client that during the shoot out phase brought that exact subject to me attention in front of the selection committee. I quite simply and quickly replied that I will install your system (100+ IP Cameras), wait 6 months to invoice you, and after that if you dont like the system I will remove it. Well, they offered to pay me in less than (2) months, purchased well over 1000 more IP cameras and I now have in place an unheard of (10) year IDIQ contract with the Local City government. All HIKVISION. We do quarterly firmware updates (as all RESPONSIBLE DEALERS should do) So I would say they could care less about the perceived notion of "terrible products".

There are many others that I have had to explain, show the real HIKVISION with class and honesty and closed the deal. I regularly BID on jobs with 10, 20, even 50+ other vendors, rarely are the low bidder, and sell the job because the quality speaks volumes, the manufacturer support is incredible, our past performance and references sell the systems for us, period. I have nothing more to add.

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UM
Undisclosed Manufacturer #2
May 12, 2017

'Price the HIKVISION slightly under the Avigilon to maximize the margin, and close the sale, always'.

That might work when you are dealing with a blind guy.

'...show the real HIKVISION with class and honesty and closed the deal'

I find the words 'class' and 'honesty' very interesting based on the 'maximize the margin' statement.

6 months, sure that will cover all potential issues for the future and is ample time to 'proof' how good the system is. Give them a Hik and AVIGILON system each side by side and charge them they way you suggest at the top and I know which system you will be removing. I've seen end users falling for the Hik trap who are now very happy AVIGILON users.

I will finalize with 'where there is smoke there is fire'...

 

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JH
John Honovich
May 12, 2017
IPVM

wait 6 months to invoice you, and after that if you dont like the system I will remove it.

That's a powerful sales tool and the fact that Hikvision products cost so much less than Axis and Avigilon makes it a lot easier to do / finance / cover.

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UM
Undisclosed Manufacturer #2
May 12, 2017

Absolutely, I agree. But what if they don't know what they are comparing it with? We also know that 6 months doesn't cover future firmware issues, incompatibility issues with new products or potential cyber security issues etc. It's merely a 6 month test drive. It's just another 'sales tool' out of Marty's tool box to manipulate his clients and to 'maximize' his margins. 

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JH
John Honovich
May 12, 2017
IPVM

But what if they don't know what they are comparing it with?

And that's the beauty of being the guy willing to fund a 6 month trial. Lots of buyers are willing to take that offer over the time / cost / complexity of comparing multiple systems on site.

User figures - "Hey I'll try the lowest cost system out for free for 6 months. If it works ok and I don't have any major problems, just keep it and pay. If not, I'll throw it out."

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UM
Undisclosed Manufacturer #2
May 12, 2017

Nope, not buying it at all. Back to the car sales man practices. I'll give you this that and the other and a set of mats. Marty is simply lucky in those scenario's that he is dealing with 'opposition' that is not willing to accommodate a trial apearently. To 'test drive' a system you don't need 6 months. We offer clients the trial as well and they normally know within a week which is best...we have to to agree to disagree. 

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MC
Marty Calhoun
May 12, 2017
IPVMU Certified

Lucky? I have a 20+ year track record of closing deals others claim I could never do, dont understand or do not know my financial abilities. Those clients are still my clients as well. You are truly underestimating someone you have no idea what they have in their pocketbook, you better hope you are Lucky my friend if we ever go head to head.

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UM
Undisclosed Manufacturer #4
May 12, 2017

 

MARTY ON HIKVISION SYSTEMS VERSUS THE COMPETITION:

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MC
Marty Calhoun
May 13, 2017
IPVMU Certified

Thank you! UM #4

UM
Undisclosed Manufacturer #2
May 12, 2017

So how do you close those deals Marty? And why don't you answer real questions asked on here and directed at you? All we get is evasive answers consisting of how brilliant you are and how Hik is the dogs you know what. How do you actually explain the reported issues to you very large corporate clients and why do you think they don't care? John asked you about several installations at government sites but I don't think you answered those either. Lucky? Don't make me laugh. I prefer a product that sells itself not something that needs the promise of 6 months free and all that nonsense. I have a 25+ year track record myself...

UI
Undisclosed Integrator #5
May 12, 2017
It is much more likely that Marty's client is impressed with the bravado of the test drive maneuver. I have to say, it is quite bold.
MC
Marty Calhoun
May 12, 2017
IPVMU Certified

You are completely assuming we sell at the same margins I buy at, thats foolish. I sell at the same general price the AXIS or AVIGILON guys do, only exception my MARGIN is TWICE or three time theirs. I have an excellent performance record, the product is SELLING ITSELF. You are ass backwards confused in thinking HIKVISION cannot compete with others, phooey on you, we HIKVISION dealers know whats up and take FULL ADVANTAGE of it.

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UM
Undisclosed Manufacturer #2
May 12, 2017

 

U
Undisclosed #3
May 12, 2017
IPVMU Certified

phooey on you...

Let's keep it civil, ok?

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JH
John Honovich
May 12, 2017
IPVM

You are completely assuming we sell at the same margins I buy at, thats foolish.

No, I am not. On this point I clearly agree with you.

You are going to buy products for a lot less than Axis dealers and sell them for a lot more gross margin dollars.

This means it's less expensive for you to fund / carry during the trial period and you have greater potential profits to justify the risk / cost of doing so.

MC
Marty Calhoun
May 13, 2017
IPVMU Certified
thank you John, you hit the Nail on the head,this time I 100% agree with you!
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MM
Michael Miller
May 13, 2017

Mind if I share this post with all your Hik customers :)  I am sure they would love to know how your "laughing all the way to the bank"

 

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MC
Marty Calhoun
May 13, 2017
IPVMU Certified

Your reference to a comment I made to John is  taken out of context as it was intended as a euphemism with regard to how well the product sells itself.

No one is laughing, its all hard work, strategy and being in the right place at the right time, go figure.

U
Undisclosed #3
May 13, 2017
IPVMU Certified

"laughing all the way to the bank"… was intended as a euphemism

btw, the idiom "laughing all the way to the bank" is no euphemism, i.e. 

a mild or indirect word or expression substituted for one considered to be too harsh or blunt when referring to something unpleasant or embarrassing.

since it means

if someone is laughing all the way to the bank, they have made a lot of money very easily, often because someone else has been stupid

and it's more of a mock than a nice way to say "doing well against our competition".

 

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UM
Undisclosed Manufacturer #2
May 13, 2017

So if the product sells itself why would you go through the effort of 6 months trials, 90 days credit, no stage payments on all those several 100K+ jobs? The only thing that 'sells' Hik is the price, leading the race to the bottom, and you are entrenched in it. Sure you are doing well out of it but I feel sorry for your clients. Although you claim your comments are taken out of context you seem to make a lot of references to the 'money grabbing realm and that's your own doing. Maybe you should stop doing that Marty.

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JH
John Honovich
May 13, 2017
IPVM

only thing that 'sells' Hik is the price

Disagree. The camera video quality / bandwidth consumption / hardware reliability are competitive with high-end Western equipment.

Perhaps more importantly, and maybe this differs where you are, Hikvision (USA) has massive local sales, marketing and support teams. No one who sells at low prices has anything close (except for Dahua's past year's hiring spree). Many more buyers would be scared off of a relatively unknown brand, owned by a foreign government, bad cyber track record etc. But having lots of local people on the payroll vouching and providing help, in addition to the low price, is a powerful combination.

That noted, as I have mentioned in many other locations, I remain skeptical that this combination is economically sustainable.

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UM
Undisclosed Manufacturer #2
May 13, 2017

There is a noticeable difference between the US and EMEA alright probably reflecting Hik's desire to dominate in the US market, but as you said will they be able to sustaine that kind of outlay. I do agree that the image quality is up there but that was never really disputed, not by me anyway. I'm looking closely to what's happening here and am also looking forward to what IFSEC brings.

Avatar
Christopher Freeman
May 16, 2017

Thats right , you are selling yourself, Your company, Your ability to establish long term trust, and a long term relationship . 

Not always product, sometimes its comfort 

and Good Buddy that s part of the process

 

MM
Michael Miller
May 13, 2017

You are completely assuming we sell at the same margins I buy at, thats foolish. I sell at the same general price the AXIS or AVIGILON guys do, only exception my MARGIN is TWICE or three time theirs.

This is the quote I would show all your customers.  

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U
Undisclosed #3
May 13, 2017
IPVMU Certified

This is the quote I would show all your customers.

Dismount high horse, Mike.

MM
Michael Miller
May 13, 2017

Soon as you stop posting Undisclosed.

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TC
Trisha (Chris' wife) Dearing
May 13, 2017
IPVMU Certified

Now that that's settled.

U
Undisclosed #3
May 15, 2017
IPVMU Certified

phooey on you...

No.  Fu, He is on *you*...

MC
Marty Calhoun
May 12, 2017
IPVMU Certified

Really John? I normally run 3-5 projects at the same time, all in the neighborhood of 150-400K each,( with many "peanut" deals, 20-100K in the mix). As I suggested in the above reply, allow yourself to finance those, never ask for a progress payment, and NEVER EVER ask for any payments until the job is 90 days complete, then come back to me and talk more about how easy is was for you to "cover" it. If you have any concerns as to the validity of this you know exactly who my HIKVISION RSM is, contact him and feel free to inquire away as to our performance.

MC
Marty Calhoun
May 12, 2017
IPVMU Certified

Dont need to compare anything, that is up to the client. I have clearly made up my mind I am doing the best thing and have many happy clients to prove it.

If you believe so much in YOUR product why dont you install a few systems at the same time, valued at several hundred thousand EACH, on your nickel, never invoice one progress payment, EVER, and invoice EVERYONE only after 90 days FOLLOWING completion, expressing your honesty, and stability and let the client decide which company is the best? BECAUSE that is exactly what we do for every job.

We can add to this conversation about honesty, product and looking out for clients, then.

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Brandon Knutson
May 12, 2017
IPVMU Certified

Marty, You've been in the biz for a long time and obviously favor Hikvision. What camera manufacture did you favor before Hikvision was in the picture?

MC
Marty Calhoun
May 13, 2017
IPVMU Certified

Pelco (long ago), Panasonic and Bosch were my go to brands

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Avatar
Christopher Freeman
May 16, 2017

Try & Buy 

Or I stand behind my products, installation, systems 

You either jack up the price or compensate in another way to make up the cost difference. 

Margins 

or 

Price cut from manufacturer 

 

JH
Jay Hobdy
May 14, 2017
IPVMU Certified

One thing i read here is that many are saying Marty is selling HIK on price. Marty is saying he sells slightly lower than Avigilon Axis etc. So price may not be a big factor.

 

Then factor in labor and everything else like switches and camera pricing alone does not have such a big impact. I think for us cameras are roughly 20ish percent of project cost.

I would love to know how you are landing those 400k projects... 

 

 

 

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MC
Marty Calhoun
May 15, 2017
IPVMU Certified

Innovative strategy, thats all I have to say

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Avatar
Steve Beck
May 15, 2017

Guess what is happening this week?

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JH
John Honovich
May 15, 2017
IPVM

LOL...

It has not even been 25 days since their last across the board sale.

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Avatar
Steve Beck
May 15, 2017

All smiles here. lol

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UI
Undisclosed Integrator #6
May 16, 2017

Marty is exactly why hik and dahua have gained so much traction. When you go from selling bosch and pelco at 30 points but selling based on value, and you feel you can provide the same value with other less costly equipment, why wouldn't you? I'm sure he adds value ( late invoicing, etc), but the point is, dahu and hik capitalized on and legitimized something that has been happening for a long time. It used to be the oem distributors that could do this stuff (g4/intellicam, unix, cop, etc... anyone remember American Sentry Guard???) Then dealers got smart bypassing those distys, then hik got smart and started branding at the same price point. Point is its not hard to do what marty is doing. Selling hik at high margins is probably quite easy as it has been for us selling other similar products in the past. If you're going to sell that stuff, that's how you should be doing it, high margin with tons of value add. I don't know martys business so I can't say if he is adding enough value to make his margins a decent value proposition for his clients, but apparently his clients think so if he is not stretching here.

The real difficulty lies in going from oem type products to the upper tier products without choking your business. When you're used to 60+ points, having a manufacturer tell you you're limited to 35 or 40 feels like suicide. However, this is exactly what we are doing. (Not the suicide part tho, we will leave that to those are are racing to the bottom). At the end of the day, margin isn't the important metric, because there are so many moving parts. For us we've started looking at profit dollars per device, and we find that even with lower margins, we're actually doing better with premium product. It helps that we don't have to worry about what's on sale and what scandal comes next, and sleeping well at night without having to question my own ethics is also pretty nice.

 

And no, we won't touch hikvision and have never knowingly sold one of their products.

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jc
james cordell
May 23, 2017
IPVMU Certified

That means basically your more interested in your profit margin than in the quality of the product you sell.  I couldn't understand why anyone in the government considered Hikvision knowing are partially owned by the Chinese government.  With the Chinese having a dedicated number of hackers directed at the United States, it seems like you are providing the backdoor to the Chinese based on profit.  What happened to providing a quality product that meets basic security requirements. 

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Avatar
Steve Beck
May 23, 2017

Guess what is happening again tomorrow for the second time this month at ADI?!  

 

:) 

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UI
Undisclosed Integrator #5
May 24, 2017
Have to displace those negative headlines somehow! Eventually they will come up with a new strategy.
UM
Undisclosed Manufacturer #7
May 27, 2017

Got "Rollbacks" at Walmart now, too!

Marty, you lucky dog!  

 

 

UM
Undisclosed Manufacturer #8
May 28, 2017

Like I've seen in my territory, Hik wins government and SLED jobs 50% due to low bid and 50% to ignorance. There is no way Marty explains his product is controlled and subsidized by the Chinese government and Hikvision conducts what equates to anti-capitalism predatory pricing to force competitors out of the game. On top of that he over charges at 200% margins, which is really unfortunate for the end user if it is true. 

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