Subscriber Discussion

How To Put A Maglock On A 100% Glass Door With Glass Windows

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David Matyas
Nov 22, 2016

I was asked to put in a maglock onto a glass door that has glass windows around it. Im not sure how doable it is without breaking the door. The door installer says you cant safely drill into the door without breaking it.

A different idea I came up with is maybe putting in a floor mounting strike, which I am not sure is doable.

Here are the photos of the door: http://imgur.com/a/FqEG4

Any suggestions?

Thank you

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Brian Karas
Nov 22, 2016
IPVM

I've seen maglock components that were designed to "clip" over the glass, mostly in China and Japan, don't recall seeing them in the US. In the US I have mostly seen door handles with a 90 degree bend that latch in/to the floor in these applications.

A big issue may be running wires and keeping it looking clean.

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Ari Erenthal
Nov 22, 2016

Securitron has this clip that glues to the door. It's been years since I've done it, though.

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Undisclosed Integrator #1
Nov 22, 2016

check these out

http://www.seco-larm.com/access-control/maglocks/electromagnetic-lock-brackets-and-accessories/E-941S-1K2-UQ

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Brian Rhodes
Nov 22, 2016
IPVMU Certified

1. It's epoxy/glue or nothing here, but even that may not be a reliable solution. Glue bonds break over time.

2. The door installer is correct - don't try to drill here.

3. Re: "maybe putting in a floor mounting strike, which I am not sure is doable." - Even if you find a way, I wouldn't. Floor hardware gets really dirty, grimy, and jams up over a short time. Even a minor floor wax job can ruin your lock.

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Undisclosed Integrator #2
Nov 22, 2016

Yes, a door is going to be tempered so can not be altered in the field.

100 years ago when I did a stint in the glass business we would special order doors like this with holes for handles, hinges etc. etc. and they would be cut and tempered to spec. so if the "high test" glues are not sufficient you may have to propose a new door. Which in your case does not really address how to attach the other side of the mag lock so additional store front work and tempered glass might be needed for above the door. On a positive note this would let you add some metal and a place to run the wires through.

BTW none of what I suggest is likely to make the customer happy for cost and cosmetic reasons alone but also I am sure they will be a self proclaimed access control "expert" or architectural type with some crazy idea about how this should work and what is available; which will also add immeasurable joy in working up the proposal. :)

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Undisclosed #3
Nov 24, 2016

Build a vestibule. That's your option.

But seriously, please do not try to do it. While gluing an armature plate to the door is not a problem, the problem comes with where you actually mount the mag itself, and what it can support. In looking at that door, the only possible way it can lock currently is by a bolt thrown at the bottom, which means the door is secured by a firm surface. The area above the door is not going to be able to support the weight of a mag with an level of holding force, because the glazing is going to give out before the mag will. I just ran into a similar problem with a space that was 100% glass walls and doors, where the walls AND doors went floor to deck, and they wanted 5 card readers. Simply not possible without substantial construction.

If they want access control, either replace that nonsensical door and storefront, or build a vestibule. Anything else is begging for massive trouble.

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Undisclosed #4
Nov 24, 2016
IPVMU Certified

How about a shear maglock facing up, flush with the floor, as close to the key lock as possible? Armature embedded in the bottom of the kick plate, facing down.

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Undisclosed #3
Nov 24, 2016

Lots and lots of AHJs that would not approve that. Plus, even if they did, that would fall into the "massive trouble" that I noted above. :)

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Undisclosed #4
Nov 24, 2016
IPVMU Certified

I'll take your word on the AHJ thing. But you can ask them first, no?

As for the massive trouble, I was specifically trying to avoid that by placing the armature low in the kick plate, not above the door as you mentioned.

So the stress would be similar to that off the key lock, yes/no?

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Undisclosed #3
Nov 24, 2016

Yes, but the problem you introduce now is that if the shear lock doesnt pull back far enough on release, you end up with the door hanging and not opening at all, which is obviously a huge life safety issue. I've seen it happen, thankfully on someone else's install. It's just a really bad idea in general. Can it work? For a bit, sure. But it will fail at some point way sooner than you want or expect.

MI
Matt Ion
Nov 24, 2016

I think he means something like this: armature mounts flush in the floor, spring-loaded plate on the bottom of the door. Nothing overlaps, so there's nothing to get stuck.

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Brian Rhodes
Nov 24, 2016
IPVMU Certified

Even if that's possible to mount, powering the magnet in the door means using electrified pivots/hinges, which are prone to wear, and without a door closer, getting the door aligned properly every-time is not going to happen.

Like Und3 mentions: "Can it work? For a bit, sure. But it will fail at some point way sooner than you want or expect."

'Failure' means more than life/safety issues. Failing to reliably lock is a big issue too.

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Undisclosed #4
Nov 24, 2016
IPVMU Certified

So what's your solution, if the customer doesn't feel like swapping out his brand new door? Walk? Run?

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Brian Rhodes
Nov 24, 2016
IPVMU Certified

Sometimes, you just have to call the baby 'ugly'. :)

I think the customer needs to buy a properly prepped door, and chalk up the loss to undersight.

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Ari Erenthal
Nov 24, 2016

Shrug apologetically.

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Undisclosed #4
Nov 24, 2016
IPVMU Certified

...and without a door closer...

Are you sure there's not a door closer embedded?

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Brian Rhodes
Nov 24, 2016
IPVMU Certified

Spring loaded door pivot ≠ door closer

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Undisclosed #4
Nov 24, 2016
IPVMU Certified

Ok, is this the same thing? Dorma calls it a door closer, though I'm sure it contains a spring.

The DORMA BTS80 Series is certfied to the requirements of ANSI/BHMA A156.4 for grade 1 closers.

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Brian Rhodes
Nov 24, 2016
IPVMU Certified

While I am not sure they would work here, we cover retrofit glass door access hardware here in: Glass Doors and Access Control

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