Member Discussion

Honeywell Lyric Alarm System And 5800 Sensor RF Problems

Has anyone else had issues with RF Signal Loss on 5800 series sensors with a Lyric panel? I have a customer who wanted recessed door contacts so we went with 5818MNL as Lyric does not have a SiX recessed contact. All of the motions are Six series. Everything installed as normal and worked fine for about three months. Now, they keep getting RF Signal Loss reports randomly from each of the 5818MNL recessed door contacts. I have done the Go-no-Go test and as of today the sensors all check out during the test but I know that sometime in the near future there will be another problem. Tech support believes that something is interfering with the signal near the range of the 5818's. I can not convince the customer of this, and they really don't care as to what is causing the problem... they just want it fixed. The catch is that they REFUSE to use a surface mounted contact. Any suggestions on a solution or troubleshooting tips?

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What is the general distance of the sensors from the Lyric hub?

Are the signal loss errors happening on all sensors, or more often on certain ones?

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The furthest sensor is 25 feet. The closest sensor to have problems is 15 feet. It has been all of the 5800 sensors that are located the same general direction from the Lyric. One sensor located in the opposite direction has not had an issue, at least not that I am aware of.

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Two of them seem to be affected more than the others. 

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Sounds like the 5800's are periodically failing their supervisory check-in.  I have a Lyric system on the bench, but have not installed any of them yet.  I do not like the all-in-one units because I think they have some drawbacks in terms of versatility. 

One drawback is that you mount the main control on the wall, wire power to it, and then begin the GO NO-GO testing.  Then you find out that a few of your transmitters are in a null spot, and this null spot is large, or there is interference. And no matter where you test them around the opening you'll get intermittent signal strength.  With separate components you have more options, moving the receiver, adding a repeater, and hardwiring if necessary.

Sounds like your particular install has few options.  Are the 5818MNL's installed horizontally or vertically? Sometimes it makes a difference. 

When doing a GO NO-GO test, do you check it once or twice?  I usually check it five to ten times, and I'm looking for just one miss.  If it misses once, I recheck it multiple times for another miss and if that happens I look for another location.

On the 5818MNL, I use masking tape and put the sensor on one side of the door.  Then do the GO NO-GO test.  If it passes my test there, I tape it to the other side of the door and do the same.  Then I tape it to the jamb and do another test. If it works fine in those locations, I install it.  This takes more time, but a call back take a lot more time.

Are the signal problems happening at certain hours of the day?  Could the customer be using a device that creates interference?

I had a particularly problematic install using a Lynx 7000, which I think has a lower powered receiver.  This might be the case with the Lyric, it may have a lower powered receiver as opposed to the 5881's.  This particular install had a bad null spot with two windows and the 5811's were not testing to my standards.  The main control had been installed, was 30' away, and large sensors like the 5816 would not be acceptable to the customer.  I found a smaller surface mount sensor made by Resolution Products, which was compatible with Honeywell.  These sensors seemed to have a stronger transmitter, tested to my standards, and have been working fine for a few years.  I don't think Resolution Products make a recessed transmitter, but you might check. 

Also, the new Honeywell 5800mini seems to be pretty good.  You might see if the customer would find these acceptable.

 

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The sensors are installed vertically. When they are functioning properly, the go-no-go is good 10/10 times. When they lose rf they are 0/10. This has happened overnight and daytime. If it were everyday then i would think a/c or heat, fridge, etc but it works fine for weeks at a time. The customer might be ok with a smaller surface mount but I think that to solve the rf problem I need to go with Six series which there is only one model... “oh my God that’s hideous! It looks like you just threw something together!” (Customer quote)

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I agree, the Six door/window sensor is on par with the 5816, large and obtrusive.  I've been in these situations before and the customer begins to lose confidence in the system when supervisory signals occur in a system only 3 months old. 

It's as if Honeywell hurried the release of their Lyric system to compete with Qualsys, GoControl and DSC Neo.  That's one of the reasons why I'm not installing the Lyric now, but will wait until they have a wider array of the door/window sensors and even then it might be prudent to wait. 

Also, with recessed wireless sensors, I don't push them as a routine.  I'd rather hardwire a contact to a nearby 5816.  The 5816 is a stronger transmitter and the customer can replace the battery quite easily.  But, I've installed lots of recessed 5818MNL's too.

If the customer doesn't like the appearance of the Six D/W sensor being stuck onto the door trim with an opposing magnet, which I find hideous as well, then place the Six along the door trim, hinge side and low, and see if they are okay with it there. If so, then use a plunger switch and the hardwired terminals of the Six.  Since you have the holes drilled for the 5818MNL, you can offer to come back and replace the surface mounted Six with recessed Six transmitters when Honeywell gets around to making one, at no extra charge. (This is the way I would deal with this situation.)

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