Subscriber Discussion

Hikvision OEM Refuses To Provide Support And Protects Integrator

SN
Simon Nazaretian
Aug 25, 2016

I was recently contacted by a customer whose integrator pulled a disappearing act. The integrator began the project - ran the cabling, installed the cameras, and seemingly configured the DVR - and then was waiting for the interior of the home to be completed before finishing the install, then stopped answering the phone. 

I am not certain what went on between the customer and this integrator, and am not certain that there is any bad blood given that he still has 3 properties monitored by the integrator (burg + video verification) and from what I understand the bills are being paid. 

Now, I get involved because he's in the lurch and been referred by a mutual acquaintance. I go onsite to discover that the default password has been changed - I think that this should not be an issue, and a quick fix but oh boy was I wrong. 

The DVR is manufacturer by Hikvision and branded DVS. DVS has no representation in Canada, so I contact Hikvision. They tell me that they will not provide support on OEM product (which I can accept), and inform me that the product serial number is registered under a reseller called CCTV Direct here in the GTA.

Now comes the fun part. I attempt to contact CCTV Direct. First of all their technical support team has a habit of picking up the line and then hanging up immediately (happened 3 times). I then contacted the sales line and asked for someone in technical support - I laid out the issue for him:

I am integrator X, calling for customer Y who bought a DVR from integrator Z who purchased a DVR form you (confirmed by Hikvision support). This integrator is in the wind and I require a administrator password reset. I can provide all the information required (serial #, start time, current time, screenshot of device in SADP tool, etc). 

His answer was to tell me that I should contact the original integrator who purchased the DVR for support and that no support would be provided to me. When I disagreed with this person and reminded them that they will not answer anyone's call - mine or the customers - he proceeded to tell me it is not his problem and hangs up the phone. 

I called back and requested to speak to a manager and explained the entire situation again. I was told that they would need to contact the original integrator to see what was going on and that I would get a call back within 10 minutes. I called back a few hours later only to be told that the manager is "busy". It has now been about 24 hours. 

 

Has anyone else experienced such a run around from Hikvision OEMs? I find it curious that OEM manufacturers are protecting integrators.

 

I will be trying to reach out to the local Hikvision rep sometime today, but feel like this is a lot of work to get support for a $300 OEM DVR...

U
Undisclosed #1
Aug 25, 2016
IPVMU Certified

Simon have you tried this tool?

Avatar
Brian Karas
Aug 25, 2016
IPVM

Assuming the system has the proper time set.

The other option is to get Hikvision's special tftp server tool and just do a complete firmware restore to the box. That should put it back to factory defaults, and it only takes about 5-10 minutes. Personally, that is probably the route I would take.

I haven't tested this one, but it appears to do the same thing and is easier to find:

https://github.com/scottlamb/hikvision-tftpd

U
Undisclosed #1
Aug 25, 2016
IPVMU Certified

Assuming the system has the proper time set.

You can use whatever date the system is set for, you get it from SADP before you generate the password. Then it's good for a day.

The other option is to get Hikvision's special tftp server tool... Personally, that is probably the route I would take.

Not a bad option in this case, since like it sounds like a rather small TVI residential system. Even so, if I had the serial number handy, I might try the password option first because

1) There is little to lose, except the time of typing in the number

2) The system may have things like motion detection areas and day night cutover, bitrate parameters etc, that will have to be redone adding to the 5 minutes of the tftp.

UI
Undisclosed Integrator #2
Aug 25, 2016

The following should be all you need.

SADP tool,

https://jsfiddle.net/64rn86hu/embedded/result/

Good luck!

SN
Simon Nazaretian
Aug 25, 2016

All,

Thank you. I will give the above options a try and report back when I get around to swinging back to that site.

The real reason that my post was my bewilderment at the actions of the OEM supplier. I have never seen support be refused for a product currently under warranty (purchased less than 1 year ago) to a user who can prove that the unit was purchased by them and who are currently in possession of the DVR. It is not as if you have to be a registered or certified Hikvision dealer to receive support on a TVI DVR...

In the past should a customer have forgotten the password - 30 minutes of hold time and 30 seconds of technical support has solved the problem.

MM
Michael Miller
Aug 25, 2016

I am dealing with a similar issue with Dahua. Customer had a "friend" which could do the job cheaper then we could. The "friend" then subbed the work to someone else who installed gray market Dahua products. I could write a book on how to not install a IP system from this install. I spoke with Dahua at ISC and the person I talked to said "nothing we can do". This is a 100+ cameras and Dahua would do NOTHING to help. Now that the customer got hosed for $100K we now are ripping out the system and installing a new system. Really sad how the these manufactures don't care at all and now this customer NEVER wants to see a Dahua product again.

JH
John Honovich
Aug 26, 2016
IPVM

someone else who installed gray market Dahua products

Mike, when you say gray market, this is Dahua products from China or?

MM
Michael Miller
Aug 26, 2016

someone else who installed gray market Dahua products

Mike, when you say gray market, this is Dahua products from China or?

John yes that is correct Dahua products from China. They were sourced from a US distributor from NJ which is selling gray market products. When I was speaking with the Dahua rep at ISC I mentioned the name of the distributor (before I told them the issue) they said " that distributor is a great partner of ours". Explained the story to them and then they said "sorry nothing we can do"

TS
Tim Shen
Aug 27, 2016

Michael:

We apologize for the confusion and aggravation- we would be happy to help you in every way possible. Please contact Matt Bischof, Sales Director for Dahua North America, at your leisure Sunday-Saturday from 12am until 11:59pm, via phone or email as follows:

•+1 (630) 668-4918

•Matt.Bischof@global.dahuatech.com

Again, many apologies for your aggravation.

(1)
(1)
U
Undisclosed #1
Aug 27, 2016
IPVMU Certified

...Sunday-Saturday from 12am until 11:59pm, via phone...

Is that EST?

(2)
U
Undisclosed #5
Aug 27, 2016

I saw that as an 'unvite' to MM - so I was the one who voted it funny.

As described, the issue MM had has already been solved. By rip out and reinstall.

(1)
jo
jason oneal
Aug 25, 2016

I might would consider ordering a new dvr that you will be able to support and warranty. Use the existing hdd to save a few bucks. Probably come out cheaper than the time to reset at this point. Plus what about future issues?

Avatar
Armando Perez
Aug 26, 2016
Hoosier Security and Security Owners Group • IPVMU Certified

I used to own a small boutique distribution company. Lots of value add that is now becoming more common place, lots of protecting the dealer or integrator, lots of tools they could use to build their business, etc. I understand what they are doing. Their customer is the integrator and they dont want someone stepping in front of them. This has nothing to do with Hik, as much as I like to blame everything on them. (Arent they partly responsible for the Exxon Valdez?) It has more to do with the distributor knowing who their customer is. Smaller distributors do this well and its why alot of integrators choose them to begin with. I agree that it does put the end-user in a tough spot, which is the reason those smaller distributors should choose their customers wisely.

(1)
(1)
SN
Simon Nazaretian
Aug 26, 2016

Armando,

I completely agree with you that this is not Hik's issue, but I will say that they have been very proactive about all of this. The Director of Sales for Canada reached out to understand the issue and to offer his assistance. I do have to say I was pleasantly surprised by their actions even though they do not actually own this issue.

I'm not certain what will come of their involvement, and honestly I'm shocked that it's come this issue has gone this far, but the take away for me here is that they are working very hard to show value to integrators.

JH
John Honovich
Aug 26, 2016
IPVM

The Director of Sales for Canada reached out to understand the issue and to offer his assistance.

Simon, that is good to hear.

More broadly, I wonder at what point Hikvision starts closing down the OEMs. It is hard to maintain quality standards across so many re-labelers and they know have so much sales and support infrastructure in place locally.

Avatar
Armando Perez
Aug 26, 2016
Hoosier Security and Security Owners Group • IPVMU Certified

I'm sure its coming. Then they can start shutting down distribution. then why not the integrator too? Have I been listening to too much Alex Jones?

(1)
JH
John Honovich
Aug 26, 2016
IPVM

Then they can start shutting down distribution. then why not the integrator too?

In fairness, the OEM thing is much different. The OEMs act as 'manufacturers', Hikvision is a manufacturer, making the OEMS increasingly redundant.

By contrast, distributors are useful for Hikvision to handle order taking, inventory, etc. Likewise, integrators do things Hikvision is not set up to do (at least in the US, obviously in China they do system integration / install).

Avatar
Armando Perez
Aug 26, 2016
Hoosier Security and Security Owners Group • IPVMU Certified

exactly my point.... two years ago they werent really setup to sell branded products through distribution in the US. now they are. Id be willing to put a benjamin on hikvision doing some sort of integration expansion in the US in the next 4-5 years.

Its clear they used the OEMs to become mainstream in the US. Then they actively compete against them AGGRESSIVELY. Next I bet they start to reel in the OEMs. Either openly or by tightening the supply chain. Perhaps they do this under the guise of "OEM's are not providing the support we expect"... then what? Where do they stop?

The stories of casualties I have heard from some of the original Hik OEM's are nothing short of warfare tactics, long before Hik became a household name in our industry. They are hell bent on domination and no part of the supply chain is safe in the long run if they feel they can eliminate it and perform that function directly.

Hey look! the sky is falling!

(1)
JH
John Honovich
Aug 26, 2016
IPVM

Id be willing to put a benjamin on hikvision doing some sort of integration expansion in the US in the next 4-5 years.

Hikvision becoming an integrator in the US sounds crazy me. Theoretically, they could buy an integrator (since building one from scratch would be unrealistic) but the amount of chaos / rival integrator opposition would be extreme. So I don't know but my gut says that's extremely unlikely.

Avatar
Armando Perez
Aug 26, 2016
Hoosier Security and Security Owners Group • IPVMU Certified

Anyone want to be escrow on $100 till 8/26/2021 ? :)

U
Undisclosed #1
Aug 27, 2016
IPVMU Certified

longbets.org is the preferred mechanism by wagering members for such predictions.

Avatar
Armando Perez
Aug 26, 2016
Hoosier Security and Security Owners Group • IPVMU Certified

I wonder how much of that is because it was posted here... ?

We have seen similar responses from manufacturers when an integrator posts here and calls them out.

U
Undisclosed #1
Aug 26, 2016
IPVMU Certified

We have seen similar responses from manufacturers when an integrator posts here and calls them out.

True. But we've also seen just as many where nothing happens, no?

Avatar
Armando Perez
Aug 26, 2016
Hoosier Security and Security Owners Group • IPVMU Certified

I should have also said it was a good thing Hik did that and the right thing to do from their perspective, which I did not say out loud. I will be referencing this post in the future when someone claims Ive never said anything nice about Hik. :)

(1)
Avatar
Sean Nelson
Aug 26, 2016
Nelly's Security

I dont agree with the methods that the distributor did to get their point across (hanging up on the phone) but we have done the same to protect our integrator customers as well. We will not give support to the end user unless the integrator gives us permission to. Reason being is the integrator is our customer who provides us with several orders a month and we dont want to take an income oppurtunity away from them for service work.

In this case its a little different though, as the integrator isnt providing support at all. If this happens with us, we will contact the integrator to have them contact their customer. If they refuse, then we ask permission to help out the customer. In the end, it all comes down to reputation and we prefer for that to not be tainted. But normally we dont provide tech support to end users who have purchase from one of our integrator customers for 2 reasons:

#1) For the reason stated above, we dont want to take a service work income oppurtunity away from the integrator

#2) We sold the products to the integrator at a much lower cost than we would have an end user. End users typically require alot more tech support labor than integrators do. If we sold the products at dealer price but are providing support at end user level, then this isnt cost effective. Its the same reason Hikvision rely's on their OEM distributors to provide support to their customers.

I understand if you dont agree with this position because I also see your point as well. What I dont understand though is if you do believe this, then why you are letting Hikvision off so easy but not the distributor.

In all honesty though, I do think the integrator needs to take care of their customer, especially if they have other contracts with them. Something doesnt sound right. The easy no brainer way to get this solved would be for the end user should threaten to cancel all other contracts with them until they get support if this is truely an issue.

(3)
UD
Undisclosed Distributor #6
Dec 10, 2016

In the past we only provided support to installers who bought from us but with Hikvision providing support toANYONE with a valid serial number , we have had to change our policy. What's surprising is the number of customers ( end users ) who can't even tell us the model number because " i am not at home ". Further , there is no way of knowing if the person calling is the own of the system, it could be an employee or member of the public with a grudge !

UM
Undisclosed Manufacturer #3
Aug 26, 2016

I understand the OEM model, however then the relabelers should either NOT use the OEM name, or they should have actually different models.

Ultimately, the end user thinks they have a Hik camera and wants support.

It is like saying you HAVE to go to the dealer because they relabeled the car, and Dodge/Jeep/Eagle/Chrysler won't support you because it was purchased from a dealer who closed up shop or won't give you a service appointment.

I can also understand not having time/facilities to support end users, however, this is an integrator asking for support, and all they want is a password reset, which should be a 1) 2 minute operation and 2) should be possible by a button on the device.

Because the manufacturer chose to require interaction to get a password reset accomplished, the onus is on them to take the time and support their product.

Maybe the relabeler needs to be the one on the phone figuring it out... They ultimately took the sale....

Avatar
Armando Perez
Aug 26, 2016
Hoosier Security and Security Owners Group • IPVMU Certified

hence why I said smaller distributors should be more picky about their dealers/integrators because they can quickly put them in a pickle.

UM
Undisclosed Manufacturer #4
Aug 27, 2016

You should have yanked it out and replaced it with a Hik machine. Would have saved you time, money and aggravation.

UD
Undisclosed Distributor #6
Dec 10, 2016

Or know that you can just TFTP or use the secure code generator as and professionally installer would know. 10-minute job. How about burglar alarms , access control ? Never came across one with the NVR locked out to prevent it being over taken ?. We used to carry spare NVM's just for this situation. Its case of knowing you like of work.

U
Undisclosed #5
Aug 27, 2016

What has not been revealed is who the original integrator is in this mess - and why they refuse to deal with their original customer.

At first I read the OP wrong and thought that the original integrator was out of business - in which case I feel that the distributor needs to handle the customers problem (and I like Sean's comments on how he handles these types of things - above all else, he has to protect his own customers - the integrator).

I get the beef from 'clean up' integrator that someone should be able to handle this problem for the customer - but the problem is that the original integrator is still in business. They are apparently just refusing to deal with their original customer. Why? That fact ALONE puts the heat on the distributor (as it should) and the manufacturer of the product (which, imo, it shouldn't).

As Armando says - distributors need to vet their dealers with more care if they don't want to end up in these types of situations.

And as I said above - this problem should fall squarely in the lap of the original distributor to solve.

(1)
rl
rona lee
Aug 29, 2016

We sell Hikvision OEM products, and help a lot of installer, IT Guy and Integrator to install Hikvision& Dahua IP system. If he need help, he can contact our company. (http://www.heivision.com) Our tech guy is happy to help him. Or give me his number, we are happy to work with him.

New discussion

Ask questions and get answers to your physical security questions from IPVM team members and fellow subscribers.

Newest discussions