Subscriber Discussion

Hikvision RSM Tacky And Distasteful Email About Axis Long Lead Times

UI
Undisclosed Integrator #1
Jun 23, 2017

Not sure of everyone else's opinion but I thought this email was tacky and distasteful. Sent today from a Hikvision Regional Sales Manager:

Dear Hikvision Partner, It has been brought to our attention that Axis is experiencing long lead times on the part numbers  listed in the excel spread sheet that I have provided. We have listed the Axis part number and cross reference it to the Hikvision part number. All of the cameras will be in stock at our major distributors. Let us know if you need our assistance.  

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UI
Undisclosed Integrator #2
Jun 23, 2017

Sometimes you get what you pay for, and I'm not talking about the product. 

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U
Undisclosed #3
Jun 23, 2017

imo, this appears to be just another avenue to pursue when you work in sales for Hik N America in 2017....

With their massive historical infrastructure spend you have to know that Hik will - maybe already are - turning the screws on these folks to start moving towards turning some kind of profit.

2nd place = set of steak knives

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JB
Jason Brown
Jun 26, 2017

3rd place is ... you're fired

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Brian Karas
Jun 23, 2017
IPVM

Here is the list that the Hikvision sales person is circulating:

According to Axis, some of these products do have lead times up to 1 month, but most are actually in-stock or available for normal delivery times.

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UI
Undisclosed Integrator #5
Jun 23, 2017

Currently my favorite distributor south of the Mason-Dixon line have well over 500 of the Axis M3045-V cameras sitting in their warehouse and ADI has thousands of those puppies laying around too.  What a joke. 

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UI
Undisclosed Integrator #6
Jun 26, 2017

I can get my hands on literally ALL of these models listed, 2 maybe 3 days away. The only struggle i'm having is getting the P3707-PE, and that demand is HUGE!

This Hik RMS has go to be referencing the current stock of some random, unauthorized disty. Scansource, ADI, Ingram, and Anixter/Tri-Ed have stock of at least some of the units above. Dont have time to check them all, and dont have live inventory for CSC. 

I applaud the pro-activity this RSM is taking, but its just not true. Its like my Sony Rep telling me Axis doesnt "make" their cameras. Apparently, Axis just dreams up a Spec and then gets bids to have that mystical camera created. I understand the factory workers assembling the cams may not have an Axis logo across their shirts, or that the Lens, Midspans, Illuminators, and so on may be OEM'd elsewhere. And that even other internal components may seldomly not be Axis on particular models, but tell me which manufacturers entire line is 100% internal? 

Theres always going to mud slinging and misinformation, but its enjoyable. It keeps you on your toes. 

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UI
Undisclosed Integrator #8
Aug 01, 2017

I've had some product shortage problems on the P3707-PE as well.  I've also checked my two main distributors, ADI and Scan Source, the only product they do not have readily available (within 2 weeks) is that one model.  It's a nice attempt by the Hik rep, I applaud his effort but I wouldn't appreciate being lied to about all the models being shorted.

UI
Undisclosed Integrator #5
Aug 01, 2017

I just check with CSC and they have stock on that P3707-PE. Yes Axis is prone to these shortage and the RSM should have said "Hey you need an off the shelf 3MP camera? We have tons of those waiting for you a day or two away. Axis is known for some log jams at time"

We received our shipment of 15  DS-2CD2025FWD bullet cameras I made on 7-20. Just got here today, so that took almost 2 weeks. So HIK is guilty as the next one. 

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Ron Miller
Aug 07, 2017
RMT

" Its like my Sony Rep telling me Axis doesnt "make" their cameras"

And, BTW Apple doesn't "make" the iphone!!!  Contract manufacturing is the way of the future. I am guessing almost everyone takes advantage of it in 2017.

UI
Undisclosed Integrator #6
Aug 07, 2017

You're absolutely right, and I completely agree. If you havent heard of FoxConn, you've been living under a rock. What I meant to say is that my Sony Rep believes Axis doesn't design or create their own cams. Its common knowledge Axis cams are assembled and manufactured by contracted companies, and cant imagine how this plays against them as long as quality is consistent. But to misinterpret this as a company not "making" their own cams is just silly, and shows a compete lack of industry knowledge. 

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UM
Undisclosed Manufacturer #9
Aug 07, 2017

I think there are 2 points that the Sony rep (just using Sony as an example due to previous comments, but could apply to other brands as well)  or others are trying to make.

  1. First off, the Sony manufacturing takes place at a Sony facility using as many Sony components as possible, and by Sony employees.
  2. The Sony (or Panasonic, etc.) camera uses a Sony (or Panasonic) DSP, imager, etc.  

Sine Axis does not fully manufacturer or possibly even assemble the product, it means that the contract manufacturer may not be an expert in cameras or whatever product, leading to a learning curve.  

They will source components, and choose a DSP to meet their needs, but they don't have as much capability to fine tune the functions in the DSP, etc.  Yes they write their firmware and add value-add functions, but there could be a limit.

Also the suppliers they use may recognize them as a competitor and limit what is available to them.  For example, if they were to purchase lenses or camera modules, zoom modules, or DSP, etc., from another manufacturer, they could give them an older generation, or one with lesser specs., to keep their own products more competitive.

One example would be to have an imager with 140dB WDR, but offer it to OEM or component sales as 130dB (software imposed limit)....

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Brian Karas
Aug 07, 2017
IPVM

For some products, I could see your points being relevant.

However, Axis is significantly large enough, and in existence long enough, that their CM should be pretty well versed on building/assembling cameras. People generally do not comment that Axis cameras seem poorly built or clumsy.

Regarding DSPs and internal components, several companies use components from Ambarella, Hisilicon, TI, etc. Though, Axis does use their own ARTPEC chips, which they have plenty of control over. For this same point in regards to Sony or Panasonic, an Axis (for example) could argue that since those companies build far less IP cameras, they may be using inferior components "hand me downs" from their broadcast camera divisions, which could have limitations when it comes to CCTV (bandwidth/encoding, lack of ability to support analytics, etc).

In some cases, companies that supply components are different divisions from their "finished goods" business units. Example: I have had FLIR outside sales people tell me that they compete with FLIR OEM when it comes to thermal cameras because they may be up against a thermal camera from another manufacturer that is using a FLIR core. The OEM business unit wants to make their own numbers, and has little reason to sell handicapped products, particularly when they have a large volume buyer.

 

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UE
Undisclosed End User #4
Jun 23, 2017

This must be more of Hikvision's supreme leadership.

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JH
John Honovich
Jun 24, 2017
IPVM

Message to sales people: Do NOT send any potentially sensitive or controversial communications to a distribution list. You are asking for trouble.

If you send it to 100 or 500 people, etc., the chances are nearly 100% that someone is going to share it around, whether it is with IPVM, or on LinkedIn, or with the competitor being mentioned, etc. 

I recognize the potential benefit of beating a competitor but it is much smarter to highly target and personalize the pitch to the few partners / prospects / customers that most likely fit the topic.

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UI
Undisclosed Integrator #2
Jun 24, 2017

Oh, like forwarding it to one of the many HIK distributors other than ADI?

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JH
John Honovich
Jun 24, 2017
IPVM

like forwarding it to one of the many HIK distributors other than ADI?

Lol, I did not consider that angle. So, yes, if you are ADI you might be happy but other Hikvision distributors may not appreciate a Hikvision RSM effectively directing dealers to ADI.

CH
Corbin Hambrick
Jun 26, 2017

I don't really see that as Tacky...more like...opportunistic.

I applaud the guy's efforts regardless.  

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U
Undisclosed
Jun 26, 2017

Posting about your competitor's challenges in delivering goods is acceptable in my opinion.  If it's real.  Using "Flynn Facts" to cook up something is just talking trash (but sales droids seem to tend to do that so I don't see that as a HIK-specific sin.)

posting trashtalk that the ipvm community would be able to debunk in milliseconds would not be very smart...

 

UI
Undisclosed Integrator #7
Jul 05, 2017

I'll start off by saying I'm not a fan of Hikvision and I'm a huge fan of Axis, but I don't have a problem with this. Axis does tend to ship in batches, which means for some of their parts you may have to wait weeks before the next shipment to your distributor. This isn't a particularly dirty sales tactic, it's a reasonable selling point for a manufacturer to say our product is more readily available than the competition. There have been plenty of times as an integrator we've changed parts from an estimate for something equitable that's more readily available, I don't blame Hikvision for capitalizing on that.

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UI
Undisclosed Integrator #6
Jul 05, 2017

I am in the same exact boat as you. What is discrediting about this though, is that the list of Axis cams he/she supplied are readily available. We are partnered with all of the Axis' North American disty's, and I could locate stock of all of the models listed. Funny enough, the big one like the P3707-PE isnt on the list. If I was in a pinch, I would very much welcome a plausible (and reliable!!) alternative. But this list is a massive exaggeration. 

This Hik RSM probably met with an Integrator that 2-steps, or uses a very small and/or unofficial Axis distributor, say Graybar, and was told he couldn't find any Axis models he needs. The Hik RMS then capitalized on this and expanded this list 10 fold. Its not immoral, illegal, slanderous, or really a big issue. But it comes across as shady to those of us who know better. Its like if your shopping for a new pickup truck, and the Chevy salesmen declares that F150 production is 3 months backlogged Nationwide because he heard of a Ford dealership in the city had very slim inventory. You might still buy a Silverado, because you like the truck. But you'll always be cautious of what that dealership tells you in the future, unless of course you drank the kool-aid the first time. 

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