"Hanwha Techwin Offers Samsung Products" - What?

We’re attaching the Hanwha Techwin name to the Samsung brand so people can understand: Hanwha Techwin offers Samsung products,”

If I look at this as a consumer it is bizarre. So what is Hanwha Techwin? A distributor of Samsung products? Does Hanwha own any of the intellectual property? Do they provide any value?

Again, looking at this as someone who doesn't know all the minor details, are these Samsung cameras or not? If they are, then why are you hanging this unknown and confusing brand in front? If they are not, then why are you representing them as "Samsung"?

NOTICE: This comment was moved from an existing discussion: LOL At Samsung / Techwin / Hanwha


Again, looking at this as someone who doesn't know all the minor details, are these Samsung cameras or not?

There's got to be a way to turn this confusion to the advantage of the dealer, maybe:

Dealer: We carry all the big brands, you know Techwin, Hanwha, Samsung. Then there is our own line, of course, G-box. I am also authorized to sell the entire Wisenet line.

Consumer: Oh, nice, let me look at one... Hmmm, these all kinda look the same, do you got anything else?

Dealer: Not in your price range, but for a little more...

Consumer: What?

Dealer: Well, have you ever heard of iPOLIS?

I kind of feel bad about this whole debacle. It is like watching a disaster unfold right before your eyes and not being being able to do anything about it.

Ross -

I completely agree. The branding strategy on this is a mess, all these names/brands associated with a single product?

The typical brand management strategy is to make sure each brand has a clear and significant role (eg: GM OnStar, which can be found in Cadillac, Chevy, Buick vehicles). You have a corporate brand, a technology/service brand and a vehicle product brand. Most people would be clear on what each brand represents and stands for.

People recognize Samsung of course, but Hanwha Techwin really has no weight. Grafting it onto the front of Samsung, IMO, is very confusing. Hanwha acquired multiple business units from Samsung in this deal, they appear to have dropped the "Samsung" name from all the others, but are still holding onto it for the cameras.

To me, this indicates that Hanwha recognizes the value of the Samsung brand, in which case they should have negotiated all this upfront with Samsung and not sent mixed messages to their channel. If Hanwha can't use the Samsung name/brand on its own, then they need to get over that fact and drop it ASAP while creating their own brand strategy.

Hanwha is acting like a jilted lover here. They say they are broken up with Samsung, but still keep Samsung's picture around, and can't have a conversation without mentioning Samsung.

I feel for Hanwha, this is a terrible time to try and launch a new camera brand in the security industry. The two primary strategies would be to compete on the low-price end with a quality competitor to Hikua, or to compete on the high-end with an advanced product to go up against Avigilon/etc. The Wisenet cameras seem stuck in the middle to me, they are far from the cheapest, but also don't rival higher-end products in any real way.

If I were handling the branding on this, I'd drop all the Samsung stuff and create a new brand name that is catchier and "worldly" (eg: Hanwha Techwin sounds very Asian).

Something like "SecurityGlobal, by Hanwha" (but obviously not SecurityGlobal). Put the product brand upfront, before the Hanwha corporate brand. Get people talking about SecurityGlobal, create buzz around a new name, differentiate the product in some way.

However, I think we're going to be stuck with Hanwha Techwin Samsung Wisenet for a while still.

"The Wisenet cameras seem stuck in the middle to me, they are far from the cheapest, but also don't rival higher-end products in any real way."

Disagree. Our tests showed Wisenet III is similar to higher-end products from Axis, Bosch, Sony, etc.

And our integrator survey results show that they are a top alternative / competitor to Axis.

For what it is worth, the other story being circulated is that Techwin really does have 'unlimited' use of the Samsung brand but Hanwha, as the new owner, wants to use its own name brand (i.e., ego over prudence).

And our integrator survey results show that they are a top alternative / competitor to Axis.

I think that the people that know the Samsung products already are happy with them. But I also think that there are a significant number of dealers that feel the products are not unique enough to warrant investigation. This is the challenge for Hanwah, IMO, how to you get people to look at the product in a fresh light? Hanwha is trying to hang on to the Samsung brand and expending too much effort saying "It's the same product, just a new name". I think they need to say something more along the lines of "We've improved on an already great platform, and we think this new thing is so awesome it deserves a new name."

A new brand gives them an opportunity for a clean relaunch. In doing this they are unlikely to lose the support/interest of people who are already happy with the product, while also having a better chance (IMO) of capturing new/fresh interest.

When I say they are stuck in the middle and don't rival higher end products I don't mean on specs alone, I mean on brand perception as well. Hanwha needs to convince Axis or Panasonic dealers that Wisenet cameras are worth a solid look.

There was a similar issue when Bosch purchased DS/Radionics and dropped the Radionics name, which at the time had tremendous value and recognition. Bosch corporate felt that the Bosch name had a superior value, which it did NOT actually have in the security industry at the time. However, this was part of an overall strategy for Bosch to greatly expand their presence in North America outside of their core Automotive business, and proved very successful in the long run.

From what I can see, Hanwha seems willing and able to do something similar, and I have seen Hanwha advertising cropping up outside the Security industry to create brand awareness in the US market.

Dennis,

Interesting comparison. How well known was Bosch in North America overall when they bought DS/Radionics?

Hanwha's issue, as we know, is not simply that they do not have a name in the NA security industry, they have no known in NA at all.

I agree that Hanwha is coming from further behind than Bosch was at the time in public perception - though in 2001, unless you were shopping for a very high end Dishwasher or pro-grade Power Tools, most people really weren't aware of Bosch. Most of the companies in North America that Bosch owned still used their original names, with Bosch maybe (or maybe not) named in the fine print. Now, the Bosch logo is everywhere on all of the brands.

But then, Hanwha's focus is different from Bosch, and is focused more on the Construction, Government, Military, Aircraft industries, where Bosch expanded from Automotive into more Consumer/Professional Tools, Appliances, and related industries.

Full disclosure, I have a family member that works for Hanwha, and I used to work for Bosch (during the transition from Radionics)

"I kind of feel bad about this whole debacle"

Ross, you feel bad? You should, you contributed to it. Related, your explanation made it to Asia.

Related, your explanation made it to Asia.

In response, Hanwha has just issued a universal spell checker patch. Thanks Ross!

HA! That is awesome. I am a little upset they did not credit my quote, but I will get over it.

It will be interesting to see how they handle this at the ISC show in 2 weeks?

Interestingly, the Samsung Group took the reverse strategy with Samsung Motors fifteen years ago, when it sold a controlling interest to Renault.

The name was changed and now the official name is "Renault Samsung Motors", but you are unlikely to hear that outside of Korea. Because inside Korea you might want a Samsung car but outside you prefer a Renault.

Samsung still has a minority interest though in Renault Samsung (20%), though so they have an incentive there to want the most advantageous branding possible.

In the case of Hanwha though, the brand "loan" has little upside and potentially large liability...

I am really starting to think you guys have a man-sized crush on SamWha. It's actually quite amusing. Problem is, it's starting to look more like TMZ and less like helpful info i normally receive from this site. Not playing sides since I am merely an integrator, but have you seen the quality of the Samsung/Hanwha product(s) drop? If so, point me in that direction. I've had a membership for a few years now but have not had as much time lately to see the recent product shoot-outs. I was "told" this is the same Techwin group that has made everything from inception, soooooo is this just a drama session or are we trying to trying to state the obvious; another manufacturer was bought by a multi-billion dollar company only to sell the product with the same product name....? (My grammar sucks, I know.)

...another manufacturer was bought buy a multi-billion dollar company only to sell the product with the same product name....

They've changed the name of the company, just months after saying they wouldn't. The product name is the same but they say they are changing that any month or so.

No one outside of Korea wants this name change. Not Techwin dealers, customers or Samsung Hanwha Techwin America.

What we are witnessing now is a warning to not be surprised when they decide to change the branding. Cuz remember they said they might...

Here's the thing: We know they are changing the brand sooner then later.

Why? Because no company in its right mind is going to say they "might" drop one of the most well known brand names in the world, and suffer the negative consequences unless they are quite sure that they are. That would be reckless. They are just letting everyone down easy.

Billy,

Thanks for the feedback!

On the product side, Wisenet III, though certainly strong when first released, is aging at this point and their new H.265 camera did not test well. It will be interesting to see when Wisenet IV comes out, they will need it fairly soon.

This may be the same 'Techwin' group but it is absolutely a new owner and so far the new owner is changing things. As U1 has mentioned, based on Hanwha's statements, it is pretty clear that at some time in the near future, the Samsung brand is going away for Techwin products.

Even now, there are 3 critical differences between this deal and other acquisitions you mention. Compare to Canon / Axis / Milestone:

  • The Canon company name is not being attached. Hanwha's is.
  • Canon has made clear that the Axis and Milestone brands are staying. Hanwha has done the opposite.
  • There are no other companies using the Axis and Milestone brand. By contrast, Hanwha and Samsung are, for now, both using the Samsung brand, increasing confusion.

Samsung is one of the top 10 brands in the world, so this is a big business issue. As such, as Han/Sam/Techwin pronouncements and changes continue to come, we will continue to cover.

Couple of things I find interesting.

People trust the Samsung name? Really? - this is a consumer brand name in most peoples eyes, if we were selling TVs or cell phones - it would be slam dunk but using Samsung in a prison for example, not sure that name brand helped.

Reading Tom's C's quote carefully, he didn't lie, the cameras will still say Samsung but the company's name is finally changing.

John Honovich is correct in stating that eventually the cameras will not say Samsung on them, it is just a matter of when Hanwha believes the product (not company) name change will hurt the least.

My biggest problem is everything is made in China and Korea etc. and now we have less and less choices of products that don't "sound" like they are made over seas. Hanwha, Hikvision, Vivotek....

We have been using Samsung cameras for four years and have watched the product develop to be a product line equivalent and now superior in some cases to Axis. Their new PTZ for example, feature for feature beats Axis's camera and is significantly less.

My guess is they will wait a little longer, keep expanding the size and placement of the Hanwah brand both in the literature and physically on the project and then eventually drop Samsung. At this/that point it just will not matter to most people.

...eventually the cameras will not say Samsung on them, it is just a matter of when Hanwha believes the product (not company) name change will hurt the least...

Ok, but when would that be exactly? Today. Yesterday. Last month.

Because today, every single (well made) camera that Techwin sells with the Samsung name on it makes the eventual name change "hurt" more.

Because you are reinforcing a brand name in the marketplace that you will be not be using in the future. What a waste of marketing dollars and the opportunity to associate the "superior" quality with the permanent brand!

Furthermore, when Hanwha does give back the brand, what agreements are in place that make it so the real Samsung won't start selling surveillance cameras under the 'Samsung' brand and effectively steal any goodwill the Hanwha has built for free!

Double Jeopardy.

Yet, if Mr. Cook is to believed, the decision is totally up to them and they could continue simply to use the brand indefinitely.

If that is true, that is the path of least hurt. Otherwise, it gets worse every day they delay, as they build up a brand they will no longer own.

Scansource obviously wanted to win the final "Samsung Techwin Partner of the Year" award, and SDM plays right along:

"ScanSource is proud to receive this great honor from Samsung Techwin, a company that continues to deliver cutting-edge video surveillance technology,” said Christie Hamberis, senior vice president of ScanSource Networking and Security. “We are pleased to have an extremely knowledgeable sales team that fully understands the Samsung STEP partner program and its processes and policies, enabling us to provide the highest level of support to our reseller partners.”

Tom Cook, Samsung Techwin vice president of sales, North America, said, “ScanSource has been a very supportive distribution partner and their creativity on bringing new business to the table has definitely reflected in their growth. We appreciate their efforts and look forward to another great year.”

In fairness, they are still technically Samsung Techwin for at least the next 11 hours (assuming ET time April 1 cutover).

Seems like a fitting cutover date...