Subscriber Discussion

Breaking In By Breaking The Garage Door - Sensor To Detect?

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Dori Ribak
Apr 26, 2017
RBtec Perimeter Security Systems

I've been discussing with a colleague that manage large properties, he expressed that he encountered problems at garage doors in commercial and large buildings that people break in by breaking the garage door (not force opening them) to go in the garage and there is no sensor to detect it.

Motion sensors or cameras won't really help since there is contact motion/movement in and out of course.

I was thinking about offering one of our vibration sensors to put on the garage door to sense this intrusion.

Do you guys think there is a need or a market for a sensor like it? Price will be roughly $800.

JE
Jim Elder
Apr 26, 2017
IPVMU Certified

I'm not sure the issue here, but there is a special switch for overhead doors. Maybe I'm not understanding your issues. Is this residential or commercial or both? Special door? Entering by pulling the emergency release like this video shows? Easily avoided by nailing up a block or with a commercial device like this.

There is also the issue of bad guys entering anywhere in the building, then pulling their car/truck into the dock or garage and loading it up. A padlock though the track will help stall that attack

So tell us more...

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Craig Mc Cluskey
Apr 27, 2017

Motion sensors or cameras won't really help since there is contact motion/movement in and out of course.

I don't understand.

What is moving in and out?

If it's the door moving in the wind, the vibration sensor on the door will respond to that.

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Brian Rhodes
Apr 27, 2017
IPVMU Certified

By "garage door" do you mean the overhead door, or a regular swinging type built in to the rolling leafs for manway access?

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Craig Mc Cluskey
Apr 27, 2017

a regular swinging type built in to the rolling leafs for manway access

That's pretty slick. I've never seen anything like the personnel door in the middle of the overhead door in your picture before.

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Mark McRae
Apr 27, 2017
Inaxsys Security Systems

I don't really understand your requirement. Can you elaborate?

if it is a standard garage door, an overhead door contact installed at the top of the door and at the bottom of the door will be $50. If additional protection is required (in case someone cuts the door without opening it), I have found photo-electric beams (to cover a long series of overhead doors) or simple dual-technology motion detectors to be perfectly adequate. This type of solution is far cheaper than an $800 cost per door for a vibration sensor.

in addition, a vibration sensor would have to be carefully calibrated not to false alarm because of an overhead door shaking in the wind.

Am I missing something in your requirement that makes it more complex than the above existing solution?

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Dori Ribak
Apr 27, 2017
RBtec Perimeter Security Systems

Hi All,

Let me reexplain myself.
I'm talking mostly on commercial doors or high traffic gates for multi car buildings/government parking.
Sometimes they are called Parkade door. (see picture below)

In those gates there is a constant movement of authorized people who come in and out of the garage 24/7. Motion detection can't be utilized because again there is authorized movement in and out from the parking garage.
What happened is they broke the gate itself (few bars) came into the garage and stole items from and around parked cars.

I want to put a vibration on the gate against breaking, sawing or cutting of the gate.

JE
Jim Elder
Apr 27, 2017
IPVMU Certified

Starting to make more sense now. Is it a motorized gate?? Does it open up (like a residential garage door)? What causes it to go up (push button, loop detector)? do PEOPLE go into this gate, or is it vehicles only?

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Mark McRae
Apr 28, 2017
Inaxsys Security Systems

A short-range photoelectric beam on the inside of the door, mounted at about 24 inches high, will do the trick. You could even wire it parrallel to the overhead door contact. When the door is closed, the contact and beam protect the door. When a card is presented (or a wiegand remote is used), it bypasses the door contact/beam for enough time for a door open/close circuit. Otherwise, the door will be protected 24 hours a day.

make sure that the beam is mounted very close to the door on the inside so that you can't get any false alarms from people legally walking by in the parkade. 

This is a functional, cheap solution that should not cause any false alarms and protects the door. I would go this way before trying to reinvent the wheel with a vibration sensor on th door.

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Jon Dillabaugh
Apr 27, 2017
Pro Focus LLC

While I don't have an answer or a solution, I do have some input. If these guys are capable and willing to cut through a steel bar gate, I'm not sure you are going to keep them out, no matter what you do.

I worked in a warehouse years ago and we had just received a large load of plasma TVs, back when they were many thousands each, and a crew broke through our cinderblock wall to pull them out one at a time. They loaded them into a U-Haul they stole from down the road. Total loss was over $200k. The warehouse had contacts on every door and PIR inside each entry point as a backup. They still got in. They still made a huge score. Nothing would have stopped them. 

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Mark Jones
Apr 27, 2017

Door Circuit

It is crudely drawn, but just wire your door switch in series with the motion detector.  If the door is down, the motion is sensing and gives an alarm (when someone breaks in).  If the door is normally up, (people coming in) the motion does not send an alarm.  Use the door switch to control what the panels sees as an alarm.  If you want more, install another switch just for monitoring the door.  

Low-tech I know, but it works.

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Dori Ribak
Apr 27, 2017
RBtec Perimeter Security Systems

I've thought about it, problem if someone pulls to the garage door too close before he clicked the button then it will alarm.

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Mark Jones
Apr 27, 2017

Sorry, I misunderstood.  I thought the door was automatic.  

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Mark Jones
Apr 27, 2017

You can add a Corby timer module to the circuit above and that would delay the alarm from 1-510 seconds.  It would give someone plenty of time to close the door and clear the area.

I get the feeling you are looking for something a little more intelligent.  I do agree with a different poster - motion sensitive or noise activated will give spurious alarms in high wind or when someone just walks up and shakes it.  False alarm nightmare.

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