Subscriber Discussion

Fail, Or Creative Install?

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Brian Karas
Oct 09, 2017
IPVM

Saw this on one of the LinkedIn "cctv fail" type posts last week:

Thoughts? Is this a "fail", or a sign of an integrator doing a little extra to make the install blend in better?

U
Undisclosed #1
Oct 09, 2017

Both.

(3)
U
Undisclosed #2
Oct 09, 2017

Hard to say without a picture where both are visible from the typical perspective, but I wouldn't deem it a fail necessarily... if the box is ground level behind a bush, meh, who cares. Maybe they got a black camera for aesthetics but forgot to bring the spray paint for the box.

(2)
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Brian Rhodes
Oct 09, 2017
IPVMU Certified

I have not seen anyone sweat copper pipes as conduit before.

This isn't a fail.  It doesn't meet any sort of spec, and I'd be suspicious of the joints if an integrator or electrician (not a plumber) installed it, but they apparently want a patina-ed conduit, so no foul.

(4)
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Brian Karas
Oct 09, 2017
IPVM

My biggest hope would be that they ran the cable AFTER the joints were soldered. If that is the case, and the joints are sufficiently water tight, I would call this more "creative" than "fail".

 

(4)
UM
Undisclosed Manufacturer #4
Oct 10, 2017

I find it very hard to believe the solder was done prior to the cable run. Look closely at those curves and tell me if you think cable was run after the fact.

(1)
U
Undisclosed #2
Oct 09, 2017

Some places are extra sensitive with appearances, there were a few buildings we had to manage where you couldn't drill holes anywhere for example (architectural conservation and strict legals about that), and in one case we had our electricians build a little thingy out of wood to mount some cameras :)

(1)
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Michael Silva
Oct 09, 2017
Silva Consultants

This is one of those situations where the solution rubs us the wrong way because it is not "traditional", but in reality, it probably works just fine. I always specify IMC or RMC conduit for any outdoor cable installation, but have also seen cases where indoor-rated cable was just strung exposed along a rooftop, and 20 years later, the installation was still working. I seen no practical reason why this copper pipe installation wouldn't work just fine.

One of my favorites along these lines was at a lodge in the California mountains. The installer put in the security and fire alarm systems using "Wiremold" that was custom made by a master cabinetmaker using redwood. The finished installation was simply beautiful - wish I had been allowed to take pictures. 

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U
Undisclosed #3
Oct 09, 2017
IPVMU Certified

Double points for both Creative and Fail if it's gel-filled category cable inside a working sprinkler pipe...

(5)
MC
Marty Calhoun
Oct 09, 2017
IPVMU Certified

Maybe this installer is familiar with Pyrotenax? Nothing wrong with this, its 100% creative, it's a pain in the ass to solder pipe so it is not a short cut method or a hack job at all.

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Brian Rhodes
Oct 10, 2017
IPVMU Certified

We call that stuff 'IM' around here, I have no idea what that abbreviates.  I just know the handful of guys that can work it stay busy with power plants and heavy infrastructure work.

[EDIT]

It is called 'MI', not 'IM', and it stands for 'Mineral-insulated'.

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Christopher Freeman
Oct 10, 2017

Very creative for owner, self installer , plumber or Handyman

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Kyle Folger
Oct 10, 2017
IPVMU Certified

Personally, it could be a lot worse. With all those hard bends, it wouldn't be very easy to fish the wire. I would like to see an overview shot with a high resolution camera to see the complete install. From what I see here, I would have tried to get a brown junction box or better yet, have the white box painted to blend in. Good painters could make standard exterior conduit blend in really well. That all depends on budget though. It's hard to tell, but if that's copper, won't it change color over time being exposed?

UM
Undisclosed Manufacturer #5
Oct 10, 2017

Based on the fact that the owner of the premises went for the traditional stone facing I'd say that the choice of conduit was intentional and I think it looks well. Yes the junction box should have been painted as well I'd like tot think but who says it hasn't been since.

U
Undisclosed #3
Oct 10, 2017
IPVMU Certified

Looks like the work of Hal Bennick and his arc welder ;)

(2)
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Hal Bennick
Oct 12, 2017
Trafficware, a CUBIC Company

Man, this is proof that the internet never forgets! ;-)

(1)
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Jon Dillabaugh
Oct 12, 2017
Pro Focus LLC

Fail, but not the hardest fail I've seen. Just the additional labor needed to cut and solder all of those pieces together is super costly, not to mention the cost of materials being much higher for copper pipe. And as others have said before me, pulling even a single CAT5e cable through those tight 90s would be a mofo. He probably used a whole bottle of lube getting that wire pulled. I pray that he did indeed pull the wire after the fact, and didn't solder those joints with wire inside.

(1)
SD
Shannon Davis
Oct 12, 2017
IPVMU Certified

Hard to tell but maybe they have copper trim and guttering around the facility. I have seen a couple of places like that over the years.

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Brian Karas
Oct 12, 2017
IPVM

That is my guess, this was done for aesthetic purposes to try and match the environment.

 

(1)
BM
Bob McCarvill
Oct 13, 2017

Looks nice, but FAIL!! hahaha

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Rodney Prideaux
Oct 17, 2017

I think it looks good and probably took a bit of effort.

Yeah it needs the junctions painted different color but meh small fish.

JP
Jamie Pugh
Oct 17, 2017

IMHO it's easy to criticize when you have the benefit of 20/20 hindsight. Without knowing the circumstances around the install it's not fair to judge. Suppose the job is 200 miles from the guy's shop and he arrives to find out that the "traditional" install materials won't cut it aesthetically. Maybe he had to go cobble up a propane torch and get the pipe from Home Depot to avoid an expensive return trip while still managing to satisfy the customer's aesthetic requirements. 

Or maybe the job was done under construction and the plumber did the pipe work at the request of the GC to satisfy a demanding building owner. The camera work otherwise appears to be fine.

I've certainly seen a lot worse and realistically I doubt if this install is going to fail prematurely. The pipe is straight and the joints look well done. I think the "tell" would be in seeing the rest of the job.( Head end, other cameras, etc.) Quality workmanship makes itself apparent in those areas.

(1)
UI
Undisclosed Integrator #6
Oct 17, 2017

I am presented with these issues on a regular basis, I don't just use what ever is on site. 

I Prepare, Plan, install to a professional manor.

In this scenario , this is trunk slammer thinking, and handyman installation s, unskilled labor way of thinking

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