Looking For NVR To Record UHD Cameras And Work With A NAS

The interface on Dahua leaves a lot to be desired.

I want to use UHD Dahua cams (normally have good lighting - all is relatively short, indoor distance (15m max).

HATE that Dahua only allows 1 hour export segments from Smart PSS (+glitch requiring entrance of wrong time!)

I don't want to pay exorbitant pricing for storage, and have both a QNAP and Synology NAS. QNAP with HDMI.

I'd like to use my NAS for iSCSI or NFS, if that's a reasonable means of storage and loses no features of the NVR.

I'm impressed by the ability for Exacq to allow you to create an event that is a linear proof of wrongdoing.

Do my desired Dahuas have to be on Exacq's compatibility list to work?

They're ONVIF, so I presume they'll work - but I'll lose H.265+, for whatever it was worth, anyway.

H.265+ is a gimmick anyway, if I set my system up to only record on motion anyway I presume.

Would I lose the camera's smart features (which seems unlikely as they are setup via the IP of the camera's interface...).

UHD x 8 cameras at 20-30 FPS will require more hard drives than I'm willing to pay.
Additional cameras will be lower resolution.
Dedicated NAS space will be 24GB, minimum, with 14 days being more than ample time.

Suggestions?
Is there another NVR besides an Exacq I should look at?
If Exacq, which Exacq model would you recommend for the given frame rate x resolution (IP only, NAS storage)?
What is the difference between the starter and enterprise camera licenses?

Thank you all. I am a novice. I have been reading, and I LOVE this forum. So many knowledgeable people.

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Undisclosed Integrator #1

I haven't tested it, but don't be surprised if some of the Dahua cameras will appear as Illustra in Exacq which would allow greater than ONVIF functionality.

The Dahua toolkit has a bulk export tool and a conversion tool as well.

As for iSCSI, I'm not a LUN fan. To each their own.

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Truman HW

In reply to Undisclosed Integrator #1

Can you elaborate on that? I have a which I can't make work properly with my Dahua NVR...

- SNF-8010P (Samsung/Techwin/Hanwha) - Fisheye only, no correction options
- Hikvision DS-2CD2085FWD-I (experimental, doesn't work at all)

Should I define them as different products?

EXCELLENT advice re: bulk... which I see there is [a] process for (though it's in the changlish-inference only category of explanations).

When I did work on exporting data, it would export using DAC as a file type - which of course, required I buy some crappy looking program which wouldn't even give me a 1 day trial.

Is .DAC a standard NVR file type?
Is there a program you'd recommend for that?

Lastly, I have cameras that I'm going to sell below my cost, do you know of a good marketplace?

Thanks again. GREATLY appreciate your time.

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Undisclosed Integrator #1

Dahua is an OEM/ODM for several manufacturers, one of which is American Dynamics. See the IPVM list.

I would not suggest connecting unsupported cameras to a Dahua recorder. Dahua has a list of supported cameras.

I am familiar with Dahua exporting as .DAV. They have a factory viewer for free and the other tools I mentioned.

You should reach out to a Dahua person.

As ppfar as selling older test equipment. eBay?

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Truman HW

Thank you again. :)

Yes, I am finally going to do all Dahua equipment. Is there any reason not to order from companies off Alibaba if I don't need customer service later, and have a warranty from the vender?

4x IPC-HDBW81230E-Z $1,300
3x IPC-HDBW5830E-Z $400
2x IPC-EBW81230: $560
1x SD6AL830V-HNI: $1,030

Then, either a:

NVR608R-64 (redundant power)
NVR616R-64 (redundant power)

...and using my synology with NFS as a local back up - and then streaming over a dedicated cable modem to my NAS at my home with a 7-day backup or so.

(I have a Dahua now, but the incoming bit-rate probably isn't high enough, and it doesn't do RAID - so I'd have to rely on my local NAS).

Home viewing system with a 4k display showing real-time... with audio available for all stations (I already have the legal signage up).

i7-7700 with sufficient specs to decode H.265 (kaby lake)... and a NKB1000 to manage the two PTZs I have. (I have another 2x 5MP IP PTZ now, of which I'll retire the one in front.

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John Honovich

IPVM

Truman, welcome!

If you just have 8 cameras, you may want to consider Milestone's free software version, Essential+. You can check to see if your Dahua cameras are on the supported list here. Main positive is that it's totally free, main negative is that this version does not support recording to network storage.

H.265+ is a gimmick anyway, if I set my system up to only record on motion anyway I presume.

I tend to disagree. If you choose to record on motion, it does reduce the benefit of smart codecs since you lose the dynamic long I frame interval. However, you still should benefit somewhat from the dynamic scene compression.

What is the difference between the starter and enterprise camera licenses?

If you want Exacq to record to a NAS, I believe you need to use the Professional version (which is in between Start and Enterprise) - see Exacq Features Matrix where it notes: " Extended storage Expand primary video and audio storage using exacqVision's S-Series or industry standard NAS" is not available in Start.

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Truman HW

Glad to hear that about 265+ ...but, then, the only way for the + to work is if the camera+NVR are by the same company, no? :)

The price of the licenses would wind up being very similar to the cost of a 608R ... which will allow me not only to record to a local NAS, but a remote NAS, as well; no?

What does Exacq do that you anticipate Dahua not? Also... this looks like it could be pretty nice, and cheap; pending on the max resolution it'll resolve:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/SMR8016U-16-CH-Megapixel-H-W-RAID-NVR-/201950881402?hash=item2f0535e67a:g:3sQAAOSwJAtZOZOT

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John Honovich

IPVM

.but, then, the only way for the + to work is if the camera+NVR are by the same company, no? :)

No, smart codecs typically work with 3rd party VMSes. The problem is H.265 working in some / many VMSes, e.g., Hikvision H.264+ worked with Exacq but H.265+ didn't, however that was an H.265 issue, not a "+" issue.

Is there any reason not to order from companies off Alibaba if I don't need customer service later, and have a warranty from the vender?

I think you're playing a risky game buying Dahua off Alibaba but I am fairly risk averse. We have not tested Dahua's NVRs but from testing many of their cameras, they can have quality issues and not having any support for an NVR is not something I would recommend.

If you want low cost, why not Hikvision? They have better overall quality than Dahua and you can readily buy authorized Hikvision at low cost, with support, etc.

Btw, one other question, why do you want 24TB for 8 cameras? That strikes me as a lot of bandwidth, especially since you say you plan for it to be motion based recording. Do you want full frame rate? Is there heavy motion in your scenes, etc.? I think you can do better saving money by reducing storage than buying from Alibaba.

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Truman HW

I need to watch and record my customers; I've decided that anyone who lies in a yelp review gets a VIDEO response, instead of a written essay. :)

Also need to watch my employees; small parts: M.2 SSDs, etc = PRICY.

The wish list... and ideally, pretty close to the above budget:

4K/UHD ... (Though most are 12MP)
1/1.7" (big sensor series)
H.265+
Already own a Dahua NVR
Nice Fisheye (all above specs, as well)
4K PTZ with... the 1.7, H.265+ ... laser focusing (used primarily in daylight).

Those 10 cameras -- those features -- for a total of $3,400.

Most of those are 30FPS at 4K.

I'm hoping that Dahua cams to Dahua NVR makes the H.265+ best case.

With Hikvision, I could buy a PTZ and a single dome camera... and make my payment to the people's republic of china. No? :)

I can't even find Hikvision cameras with 1/1.7" and H.265+ ... they all say H.264. Slower frame rate at the higher resolutions, and I'd bet they have a slower DSP; as in, more lag between when the picture comes in and when it hits the NVR (if I explained that okay).

Do I really need to sweat the quality of these? I'm paying paypal, and requesting that IN the invoice, anything that's defective has to be exchanged on the vendor's dime.

Is the risk based on quality control? How substantial is the risk?

24TB is a lot. However, 3TB drives are cheap, and if you evaluate the URE factor of RAID arrays, you need to do RAID 6 with drives that have URE of 10^15th, which means 18TB using the fake calculation in which a TB = 1,000,000,000.

18TB actually = 16.7TB
4K, 30FPS... and who knows what my true usage will be.

But yes, I will use H.265+, VBR, appropriate compression, masking of non-relevant space, etc. But the potential to have to roll back 30 days exists; someone could sell me something that's hot; and I'd want the perp's picture.

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John Honovich

IPVM

In reply to John Honovich

4K PTZ with... the 1.7, H.265+ ... laser focusing (used primarily in daylight).

Which model is that? The 6AE830VNI? If so, we tested it here - poor results. Though I think you might be using this one (not available in the US officially) though my understanding was that was laser illumination not focus.

Those 10 cameras -- those features -- for a total of $3,400.

If you are getting 10 4K PTZs at $340 each, that's amazing, almost hard to believe even for Chinese incredibly low standards. Is that correct?

I'm paying paypal, and requesting that IN the invoice, anything that's defective has to be exchanged on the vendor's dime.

I agree on paying paypal since paypal is very pro-buyer.

and make my payment to the people's republic of china. No? :)

Well, since Dahua is literally around the corner from Hikvision in Hangzhou, either way it is going to roughly the same place.

Listen, I am not going to push for you to use Hikvision but, if using those Dahua PTZs we tested, I'd be cautious about their quality.

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Truman HW

•Sep 28, 2017

Of course, but you're testing that PTZ for use in the dark at large distance - my use is for relatively close, in daily, but where I can see very high detail. DUE to this conversation John, I'm completely switching my game plan; I will not be getting the laser version for my original intention, but might for a new rationale.

Anyway, I want a milestone with a QNAP - do I REALLY have to buy one of the two QNAPS that are exorbitant? Or can virtually any of the QNAPS that are new models that have nice CPUs plausible candidates with a nice server..?

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Undisclosed Manufacturer #2

That 4K PTZ will be using the laser for IR illumination not focus, you will need to be careful about eye safety/liability issues related to this. You should request the NOHD distance from the seller, and ensure that you install it at a safe height where a human will not be within that distance when the laser is activated at night.

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Truman HW

This looks like a range that would reflect getting the value out of the cameras I have, roughly, no?

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John Honovich

IPVM

Storage calculators can be wildly off.

One element that changes things is that you now have mentioned that these are PTZs. Are they going to be on a tour or how often are they going to move? The more they move, the more bandwidth goes (by a factor of 2x or 3x roughly). Related, usually storage calculators assume fixed cameras, since fixed cameras are most common.

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Truman HW

My cost on 3TB Enterprise HDD with 10^15th URE was about $70...

But - I'd be very, very interested in any suggestions on Hikvision equipment that has the same specs that gets close to the pricing. Truly.

H.265+
UHD at 30FPS
1/1.7" Sensor

especially any camera that gets close to that deal. :)

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Truman HW

I usually use PTZ mode manually, though I was going to attempt to have it track faces it detects in a particular region.

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Truman HW

Ah, no no, DEFINITELY not 10 PTZs for that price; if they were I'd be selling PTZs and quitting my day job. :)

3x IPC-HDBW5830E-Z......$400.........1/1.7", H.265+, 4k @30FPS.............Dome
4x IPC-HDBW81230E-Z...$1,300......1/1.7", H.265+, 4k @30FPS/12MP...Dome
2x IPC-EBW81230:...........$560.........1/1.7", H.265+, 4k @30FPS/12MP...Fisheye
1x SD6AL830V-HNI:........$1,030......1/1.7", H.265+, 4k @30FPS/12MP,...Laser, PTZ

Bold numbers are quantities of each item, price is for the line item, total.

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Michael Miller

You started this thread saying "The interface on Dahua leaves a lot to be desired" and then you said "Yes, I am finally going to do all Dahua equipment". I think you are focused to much on the fine details that really don't matter much. Do you really need to record at 30FPS?

From what your describing you will be using this system regularly to search and export video. I would focus more on system usability. I would pick a VMS like Milestone, Exacq or Avigilon over a Hik/Dah DVR/NVR any day and twice on Sunday. Yes you will lose some of the deep integration between camera/NVR but most of these features are difficult to setup and not user friendly to use so they never get used.

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(1)

Undisclosed Integrator #1

In reply to Michael Miller

This post has gone rogue.

A fresh start on the goals to be met, how the system will be used, what issues may be present (like offloading video to the home), what brands are accessible, how will service be provided and so many more along with a budget.

Of course, that is the part a dealer plays.

I'll say no more.

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Truman HW

•Sep 11, 2017

In reply to Undisclosed Integrator #1

Recordings for up to a month of 10 UHD cameras recording in H.265+ at 30 FPS.

I will make a backup of the NVR to my NAS via NFS.

I'm searching for a cost effective means of streaming a copy of the data to my home NAS.

I will experiment with QNAP's newest joint venture with Dahua called QVR Pro.

It presently omits inclusion of Dahua's ultra series, but I think this is an omission, not an exclusion.

I'm probably doing a poor job of covering your questions, but I'd be happy to answer anything specific - as I know that I'm the beneficiary of the effort by anyone who contributes.

Thank you all in advance.

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Truman HW

•Sep 11, 2017

In reply to Michael Miller

I wrote that in the middle of a crisis, where I was literally in the middle of discovered a bug that makes the export off by an hour on a particular version of their Smart PSS.

I also found the means to playback the .DAV file type... which essentially resolved the problems I had. My apologies for the misdirection.

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Brian McCarthy

•Sep 13, 2017

.....lose the on-prem equipment and check out EagleEye's Cloud offering. With 8 cameras I am not sure why anyone would buy hardware.

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Truman HW

In reply to Brian McCarthy

Another reason to use an NVR is because remotely, I'd be unable to use the features I want; to use the Fisheye's as a PTZ, etc. Those smart features can only be managed by an NVR, in aggregate as far as I could imagine. Nonetheless, it's still a VERY WISE suggestion.

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Truman HW

I've had the internet go out for a day here or there. Never electricity.

I doubt it changes your opinion at all, but it's more like 14, because there will be a few outside.

Lastly, it's cheaper for me to do a line of sight extension to my residence than to pay another company, or life, no?

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Truman HW

Does anyone know why there's a model revision between the:

x81200x

x81230x

...and many others within the ultra smart series.... where the 0 was replaced by the 3 in accordance with their naming convention.

Was this to denote that they were in beta testing? I just don't get it. Those with the 3 revision seem to have the same specifications.

Lastly, IF ordering from china - yet receiving product with Dahua logo, does that change the product's reliability? Or is that just a marketing scheme to legitimize product that is illegitimate?

Thank you all.

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John Honovich

IPVM

Lastly, IF ordering from china - yet receiving product with Dahua logo, does that change the product's reliability?

Firmware could be different. Internal components could be different.

To be clear, I am not saying they will be. I don't know for that model at this time. But, in general, those are the two big risks.

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Carlo Kuijer

•Sep 15, 2017

Dear Truman,

To my knowledge, the 4K (UHD) lineup as you wrote down, is not capable of of doing 30 FPS@4K-HIGH, Yes it does do it in the calculator but in real live is won't allow you to do so. Also in combination with a NVR a special the limit of that platform also need to be taken into encounter.

The 4K@15-20FPS is the camera limit, depending on the NVR type this can be effected as well. Also when choosing a NVR you need to be sure that you get any bottleneck syndrome, all camera's on EVENT (VCA) based recording can cause your NVR to drop or even delay and skip those event recoding due to true-putt power, cash loads, Harddrive spinup time vs. harddrive buffering and CPU loads. Specially at 4K. This is why one NVR is costing 1000 USD and a other one 150 USD.

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Truman HW

•Sep 21, 2017

In reply to Carlo Kuijer

Hi Carlo, I'm under the impression that the below units will provide me 4K at 30FPS... no?

Samsung SNF-9000
Dahua IPC-HDBW81230E-Z
Dahua IPC-EBW81230
Dahua SD6AL830V-HNI

...would be wrong to believe so?

I'm going to get this NVR:

NVR616R-64-4KS2

... says it'll do 384Mbs incoming in RAID-5, which seems like it's setting the bar low for 8 drives minimum I'll have in there... as each drive has a write speed of over 100MB/s (~160MB/s when they're new), of which, 800Mb/s -- and in RAID.

Of course, the challenging part is getting a drive to read and write anything near simultaneous - which I think is the best reason for having dedicated drives for read while the others write, and then allow those that were reading (playing) to catch up later...

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Carlo Kuijer

•Sep 21, 2017