Subscriber Discussion

Evaluating/Hiring/Training New Techs? Aptitude Testing?

JH
Jay Hobdy
May 06, 2017
IPVMU Certified

We can not seem to find qualified installers/technicians. I think I am going to have to hire someone pretty fresh, and train them. Right now our business is pretty simple, small installs 10-40 cameras, some access control.

 

My biggest issue is I need somebody that understands how everything works and can troubleshoot.

 

I can train them on our equipment, and teach basics of troubleshooting but how do I know they will advance on their own?

 

Is there any kind of aptitude test I can give?

 

What are other small integrators doing to train new techs?

JH
John Honovich
May 06, 2017
IPVM

Jay, good question / thoughts. Thanks for sharing.

When you say 'aptitude', do you mean like general intelligence (e.g., an IQ test) or do you mean domain expertise in our space? 

I ask because you say you can't find qualified installer/technicians but then you say you "need somebody that understands how everything works". Even a 'genius' without direct experience won't know how 'everything works' in a given domain without time / experience. Can you clarify?

My general answer, both from being an integrator and at IPVM, is to look for people who have strong track records either (1) coming out of school (e.g., high GPA) or (2) from the IT side (certifications, etc.) and bring them over that way. And I agree with your implication to not recycle average security techs.

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JH
Jay Hobdy
May 06, 2017
IPVMU Certified

I mean general intelligence and troubleshooting capabilities

 

For example I can train someone to program Ubiquiti radios. Set ssid, etc. But when a section goes down they now need to know and understand how everything works, so they can troubleshoot properly.

How do I know my new hire is going to understand how it all works?

I remember taking a test many years ago and one question had a picture of a bicycle in the rain. It asked for the spray pattern off the tire.

 

Some kind of test that can determine their ability to problem solve. 

 

We have a local trade school but I think as a very small integrator I get the bottom of the barrel candidates....

 

 

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UI
Undisclosed Integrator #1
May 06, 2017

I have come across the same problem.  They do not seem to have logical common sense to troubleshoot something.  To me, it's simple to figure out how to troubleshoot and maybe it's because I understand what I am doing. However, having said that, maybe  the tech basically only goes through the motions of the install without really understanding what the purpose.  Maybe that is where the problem lies?

I feel your pain Jay, would like to know the solution as well.

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JH
John Honovich
May 06, 2017
IPVM

I think troubleshooting is much more strongly correlated with directly relevant experience in whatever issue is being troubleshooted than general logical / intellectual capabilities.

For example, often really experienced people will be able to solve a problem quickly and that tends to be attributed to 'intelligence' but I suspect that is more related to having seen the issue before and just recollecting it whereas the inexperienced person in that area needs to learn it, which is a much harder, typically longer process.

Tying it back, just because someone can't troubleshoot an issue immediately, would not be a red flag for a junior position. I'd be more concerned about (1) do they take things seriously (i.e., people who don't care are going to underperform regardless of intelligence and (2) do they have a track record of excelling in learning and/or accomplishing things.

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Robert Baxter
May 07, 2017

We use a personality profile (not an aptitude test) which can indicate satisfaction and success for different technical roles. More about that later. First determine the type of technician roles you are primarily concerned with. You mentioned both installing and troubleshooting - I see these roles will demand different profiles. I would add other technical roles that will attract further different attitude profiles: (1) Test and Inspection, (2) Assembly, (3) Programming. Some of these roles may require electrical training and certification and security clearance and should be evaluated early on in the recruitment process. You might need to create your own aptitude test, but check out the aptitude testing that cable and telephone companies use for pre-screening.

We use a personality profile tool called Predictive Index for all of our hires. The tool measures 4 different personality attributes (i) Accepting vs. Dominance (ii) Introversion vs. Extraversion, (iii) Impatient vs. Patience, (iv) Formality. A person who likes troubleshooting seems to tend to have 2 different profiles depending on how they approach problems: creatively or are structured. For example if the types of problems encountered are often unique and unusual vs. where the types of problems are limited and follow an established analysis of presenting symptoms - testing protocol - cause identification.

A creative troubleshooter will be impatient and have low formality, while a structured troubleshooter will have patience and be highly formal. One can see how choosing a creative solver to solving problems that are best solved with a structured approach will result in a non-standard solution that doesn't follow your established standards or specifications. Alternatively, having a structured problem solver trying to solve problems that require unique solutions may result in frustration, excessive hours, unsolved problems.    

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SN
Simon Nazaretian
May 07, 2017

Jay, 

I agree with Robert in that I think you need to temper your expectations in terms of finding the "whole package". For example, it could take years for a good installation tech to learn to effectively troubleshoot TCP/IP networks or complete basic PC troubleshoot. The opposite is also true. This is where John is correct - a good installer or technician is built and not born. Finding an installer that you can trust and leave alone on a site and expect things to be done well is really hard. 

First of all, finding an installer that you can trust and leave alone on a site and expect things to be done well is really hard. As stated above, their skills and abilities have typically been honed on someone else's dime, so you have to ask yourself why they are making a move - is their current company not keeping them happy (not enough money, time off, culture)? or have they been let go? Either way, you need to be wary, but this line of thought probably deserves a discussion of its own (how to keep talent once they are worth their salt).

In my experience, good "installers" are typically people with a "mechanical" facility. That is, they work well with their hands, like to be physically involved in their work, and like that kind of work. "Techs" are people who have less "mechanical" ability, or simply do not like that type of work, thus they gravitate towards understanding and configuring "logical" infrastructure. 

My characterization is obviously binary and does not realistically represent the realities of our industry - most people sit somewhere on a spectrum between one of these two extremes, but anecdotally I think we have all come across the cable puller who knows nothing about networks, or the IT guy who refuses to pick up a screwdriver. 

Having said all of that, when hiring for a junior I look for attitude first and foremost, then I look for domain knowledge. As Robert stated above, matching the candidate's personality to their job role is important as you're more likely to find someone who will enjoy doing the type of work you will be asking them to do, and not look to leave that role too quickly (training is expensive, but that's another discussion). 

I've used a few different methods to try and find the "right" person. Like Robert, I've used personality tests to try and separate the wheat from the chaff.  SaaS HR companies like Plum will provide you with questionnaires that you go through to identify your "ideal" candidate. They then generate a personality/aptitude test that your candidates will need to get through before completing your application. They will then "rank" candidates for you in the portal for deeper scrutiny.

Otherwise, I was once a part of a company that had used a business consulting group to identify their "core values" and that then established the ideal profile for employees. Each potential employee would have to go through a questionnaire to see if they "fit". 

In the end, an in-person interview and some well crafted questions / tests are still the best way of determining a person's character and ability. 

If you are looking for domain knowledge, then I typically look for "installers" to have general construction / electrical training or experience or something like a BICSI Installer cert. For "techs" I look for certs - preferably vendor neutral one's - like Comptia Network+, CWNA, Canasa ATC, etc. Most of these "tech" certs teach some kind of troubleshooting methodology and try and enforce it through practice. At least it gives you a base from which to grow their abilities. Just be careful, I've seen too many "paper cert" candidates that passed the test but can't apply any of the knowledge on a day to day basis. 

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U
Undisclosed #2
May 07, 2017

I would agree with those above who've stated that install techs and service techs are two different animals - each generally better staffed with two different personality types (all of which are already mentioned above).

Finding good troubleshooters (for service calls) is very tough.  And the toughest thing is that for any type of 'thing' that someone might troubleshoot, experience rules.  The more you've seen, the better you can efficiently troubleshoot that thing.  John pointed this out and he is correct.

but you can look for tell-tale signs of someone whom you could teach the 'thing' to and assume they might be good troubleshooters of that thing in the (near?) future. 

good troubleshooters are natural detectives - and in my experience, are driven by the need to understand the 'why'?  Why isn't this thing working?  Why does this same person call me all the time about this same stupid thing that I've already told them how to fix?

They like the elegance of things that work and have a natural dislike for things that don't work the way they are supposed to.  They have a built-in incentive to find answers to problems because it makes them feel better when they do.

They notice things that are different - even slightly so - that most others might not.  And they feel a need to fix them.

So, if you agree with the above.... get creative and try and and figure out a way to identify this type of person when interviewing.

Hang a picture in the waiting room crooked and see if they notice it or say something to you about it (and if they get up and straighten the picture, hire them on the spot).

Change the spelling of your company name or transpose the numbers in your address in your email signature when you send the candidate the interview request (or follow up to your call) and see if they notice. 

I imagine you could classify the trait you are looking for as a mild form of OCD - though in a high functioning state, I would not classify it as a disorder. :)

 

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JH
John Honovich
May 07, 2017
IPVM

Now that we are talking about characteristics, personalities, etc., one thing I did when I was an integrator is have our employees take a StrengthsFinder assessment. It ranks people across 34 themes.

Our best technical people typically scored high on analytical and achiever, e.g. Top sales people typically had the 'command' theme and/or competitive theme.The only person who scored high on 'empathy' was our receptionist, e.g.

By contrast, one tech who underachieved scored high on 'includer' and 'restorative' theme. He had technical training but his personality undermined it.

Now, this was scoring what you liked / emphasized in your personality, not what you were good at. However, what was fascinating was that these themes matched well with what people were good at or could become good at. For example, we hired two guys from tech schools, both had near perfect GPA, but one guy scored high on 'arranger' and 'communication', I made him a project manager and he was fantastic at it.

You might want to consider something like that.

Btw, if I remember correctly my 5 strengths included strategy, learner, intellectual, activator (i.e., aggressive) but no 'soft' or 'human' themes....

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U
Undisclosed #3
May 08, 2017

Strengths finder is a strong tool..2.0 is out!

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TD
Trask Dittburner
May 08, 2017
IPVMU Certified

There has been some really good advice from experienced people here.

I also use the PI [Predictive Index]. Once you set up the 'masters' for each JD, they are very helpful and I find them more accurate than I would have expected.

The other point here about 2 roles, I feel is key. The greatest service techs [troubleshooters] I've ever known - These guys can figure out why the system is not functioning the way it was intended, are useless as installers, usually shamefully so. The best installers I know are also equally bad at programming complex integrations, although they do understand the 'why' of the systems, they just aren't natural at it.

One thought for interviewing I suggest, is asking the candidates a few 'what if' scenario questions. That way you can quickly get a feel for their process. Have they thought through the basic steps? Do they understand the basic principles? Do they have their own contacts - or 'go to' people that can assist them? Do they understand the situation?

There will always be exceptions, the rare individual who is good at both, if you find him... pay him, or give him a perk so he feels appreciated.

TM
Ty Mullen
May 08, 2017
COR Security, Inc.

I feel your pain. I have always had the same problem. It's nearly impossible to find someone that can jump into a position day one or sadly even month one. The real trick is what can be done in the very short interview process to determine if the candidate has the mechanical aptitude and personality to be trained. Sad, a lot of candidates (regardless of pay scale) don't seem to have that. For smaller companies they require installers/techs in the same employee. 

For us we will be looking into the suggestions from all of the contributors above. I think we will also test our existing staff to create a realistic base line. 

We have had candidates perform very basic technical interviews. Depending on what the candidate said that he has done before in the in person interview or on their resume we try to put it to the test. Whether that be wiring up a couple of things on a bench or making up CAT 6 plugs. Very simple things, which the can't get hurt on.

It's more to see how comfortable they are doing. We have had a lot of candidates who have inflated what they have done in the past.

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U
Undisclosed #3
May 08, 2017

Teach by drawing, before aliens advanced and taught us to line our fedoras with aluminum foil this was our primordial point and learn in the sand.

If the technician can correctly draw a point to point security circuit on a napkin then he does have the aptitude to start climbing, the light is on. Start simple!

If the technician can simplify a complex system on paper "he sees it" and therefore can fine tune a mess he may encounter in the field. Seeing is believing so it then becomes heuristic nature for the technician to have and find the ability to resolve an issue.

The technician must be happy and intrigued by constant challenge of changes that one day become the core building blocks of knowledge should one accept these tasks. Do not hire the shoulder shrugging technician unless he scoffs at your designs and states he can make them better and then does.

If the technician can write music(security point to point diagram) and everyone that follows the diagram agrees it is correct, the next step is to ask the technician to "play it". If it sounds horrible then the cable terminations are sloppy, the customer is not satisfied and hours creep on the job.

Regarding all the personalities you will find in society you will need to roll the dice on the best candidates you gut feel are best suited with the training you are willing to invest. After all you will benefit yourself as you will learn along with the trainee.

Too many times I have had technicians, engineers, sales reps, service techs and veterans of this industry preach how they do this, that and the other. Once I put them on the white board and direct them to draw I find I have an instant portal into their mind, their logic and aptitude; from there I can analyze their experience. If you have any good technicians currently employed I suggest you bring them in the shop at random, toss them on the white board and see what they can do. What can they draw? How do they think? This will be a good perspective on what to expect from the guys you are looking for.

Last, work ethics are a whole other ball game. Good Luck!

 

 

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Christopher Freeman
May 08, 2017

Being in the Business for over 30 years and having had to hire, fire, sift thru the lies, bogus statements on applications there is a lot more to this than meets the eye.

Usually when hiring you have to offer something.

Usually when looking for someone and having a very high expectation you have to have a well written job description and know the hire, fire laws of the industry.

Hire People with the same Values as you want to see in the company. 

Then there is Culture , Today's Gen. and Gen X , the aged out gen.

Profiling is out, and discrimination is complicated.

So You are left with Backgrounds, Records, Past experiences.

Usually Ref. list.

Usually if you make a connection with some one on a neutral setting they will be more apt to talk freely and openly 

It is your job to read between the lines of what is said and not said. 

I have seen sooooo many unqualified applicants who thought because the owned a computer they were the cats meow.

The Best way is to sit down for multiple interviews, determine the applicants likes, desires, goals, long term, short term , what kind of work the like to do. and what kind the can do. Limitations

Mental, Physical, Emotional, Societal

Usually when you Train up from entry level you have years to weed out, loose by the way side, and get rid of toxic people as they tear a company to shreds.

Live to the code: Standards, Ethics, Company Policys

Then YOU the owner, manager, Supervisor have to set strict standards , Live by them , enforce them no matter how or what the concensis is or cost. as they will tear down , tear apart or cause unneeded hardship on all the rest. 

People will be people , But you have to leave all problems behind and keep to the task, goals, rewards of success. 

Then Setting standards, you have to set up a reward structure that gives a carrot to achieve. 

Good employees don't just show up at the door , they are molded, grown in the company, trained in the company.

You have to Provide incentives to achieve success

Troubleshooters have a certain tenacity about them , not everyone can be one. or think like one.

Put the right person in the right position or it fails every-time.

success is built on backs, and live's of integrity not just labor.  

Dont Just fill in the positions with warm bodies 

 

 

 

 

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William Watchulonis
May 09, 2017

We have found continuing education/training which includes refreshing on things already learned is critical to keeping technicians up to speed on previously learned subjects and engaged on new projects.

 

There are several LMS (learning management systems) available on the market that are very affordable to start using.  Gamification is a buzzword in the learning field and creating an aptitude test that includes gaming elements like badges to reward success goes a long way in making learning what can be dry subject matter more fun.  Most of the LMS products out there include gamification elements to help in training in a more modern way.

In training we use video to capture attention and walk through tedious and or complex segments so they can be watched over and over and even while on a job for OJT.

JH
Jay Hobdy
Apr 24, 2018
IPVMU Certified

Hey its almost a year later, and still facing this battle...

 

Right now, I am looking for an entry-level tech or noob. I want the guy that can jailbreak his phone, or the family goes to, to reload Windows. You know the guy. I have looked at some of the tools referenced here and they seem like they are not suited for a small company trying to make one hire.

 

Plum - couldn't get sales on the phone, no online pricing

Gallup - no sales phone #, had to email

 

I feel like both are going to be very expensive or designed for a company that has ongoing hiring needs.

 

Here are some of the things I found or were recommended

 

https://www.123test.com/

www.16personalities.com

http://www.thediscpersonalitytest.com/

 

I am really leaning toward this one

 

www.wonderlic.com

 

Any thoughts?

TM
Ty Mullen
Apr 24, 2018
COR Security, Inc.

I have heard it said but was skeptical until recently. Hire fast and fire faster.

I have found that it is nearly impossible to evaluate someone in an interview process. You obviously need to talk with them to try to determine what they know, what they think they know and don't, and then finally are they willing to be trained. But you can not know with great certainty. Until you get them in and start working with them. If they said they knew something but didn't or just can not get the basics down then it's not a good fit for either party you need to move on to someone else. Not fun but seems like the only way. 

 

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DF
David Fogle, CSEIP
Apr 24, 2018

It really is frustrating to try to build an organization on the backs of nothing. People do not want to work in the trades as they have been all sold the college bill of goods which leaves you with a big loan and no real jobs prospects that will both pay the bills and the loans for the knowledge.

We as an industry have only ourselves as a whole to blame. There is no external education to introduce people to the potential the industry offers.

We have a school here in my neck of the woods that started a curriculum to train and certify technicians for the field and they would be truck ready upon graduation.

They approached Honeywell to develop a partnership if you will and they turned them down flat. No vision typical of Honeywell. Brivo on the other hand donated almost 10K worth of hardware to support this and they have shown the vision to find and train these people outside of the industry and bring them in where we can benefit from their input.

 

Then we have the other side of the equation and that is what life is like once they join a company:

1. Do they foster continued development?

2. Do they expand on their training?

3. Do they show them they are valued?

 

Nope no time for that, back in the truck and back to another job site. Poor scheduling will burn them out and they will leave for sure.

 

I could wallpaper and entire room wall with training certificates that I have successfully earned and they mean nothing really in the big picture and I am heading out the door and leaving the industry as I have had with with big talk and no walk.

I will always have my 1.2 Million Dollar security project that I managed and brought in on time, on budget and not only was the customer happy, they handed us a $100k change order. Got laid off two months later by a guy the company fired 6 months later.

 

Definitely do not value your talent and you will not have them, if they are young they are portable. If they are older you cannot fill that knowledge void easily.

Train them so they could leave, then create an environment where they do not want to leave.

 

 

 

 

 

 

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UI
Undisclosed Integrator #4
Apr 24, 2018

Ive tried "growing our own". Be prepared for how creatively they can screw things up. Its not cheap.

Ive tried hiring experience, but you also hire the bad habits, and many will overstate their actual experience.

 

Ive settled on The lead tech/helper tech setup. I have 3 techs I like and trust, they use tech support too much, but they do a good job. Im hiring them each a helper to reduce the average hourly cost. Giving the lead a small raise when they have their helper in order for them to mentor that new person. Over time, they will become ready to move up and we grow from there.

We are just now starting this, so no promises. :)

 

Ive been paying raises for voluntary training for years and its amazing to me how little incentive it is. Our guys make $2 per hour more for each IPVM certification they have. I pay the tuition. Only one of them has done it, and he only did one.

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