Subscriber Discussion

Ethical Question For Integrators...

U
Undisclosed #1
•Jul 16, 2016
IPVMU Certified

Let's say you are called by the new owner of a property to install an HD security system and rip out the (non functioning) older one. He tells you just to "do whatever you want with it". When you are removing it, you notice that a couple of the cameras are actually high-end FLIR thermal cameras, still worth let's say $20,000.

Is it ethical just to do what you are told and sell the thermals for your own undeclared profit?

This is hypothetical, but inspired by what just happened to my neighbor. People complained about their tall tree blocking their view enough that the owner called someone out and told them they needed a tree removed. Tree removal service came out and quoted $800, not a bad price. Except for one thing, the tree was an enormous but healthy GoldenPalm Tree, and was probably worth around $20,000 conservatively.

They knew it too because they had to get an extra large crane to get it in one piece with roots and all.

Is this behavior ethical? What would you do?

UI
Undisclosed Integrator #2
•Jul 16, 2016

Thats a very common story. I needed 3 palm trees removed. The tree guy said for $600.00 he would remove them. I said for free he could take them. Done deal.

(1)
JH
John Honovich
•Jul 16, 2016
IPVM

1, interesting scenario. I am not sure the super expensive camera removal is all that practical (meaning commonly happens) but how about this:

Integrator talks to medium size end user of prosperous business. The user behavior / attitude indicates that they likely do not care about price and are not interesting in shopping around. What markup do you go with? 'Normal'? Really high?

U
Undisclosed #1
•Jul 16, 2016
IPVMU Certified
In reply to John Honovich

I would think 'high' but not too high that it causes some inner "I'm being screwed" alert to be triggered in the owner's subconscious. Besides you need to save the 'really high' markups for the jerk who says he going to shop your Avigilon H4-PRO replacement camera quote.

The example I gave likely never happened, but this did:

About 15 years ago, when after buying my house, I had the old security system ripped out also, (replaced with a Digital Watchdog 16 ch). The guy asked me if he could have the 4 sony VCRs that were being replaced. I said ok, not thinking they could be worth much, but later he told me he made a couple grand because they were high end super slow models that other clients still had.

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Jon Dillabaugh
•Jul 17, 2016
Pro Focus LLC

I would probably double check with the client to make sure they knew what they were trashing. If they still didn't care, you are free to take them. If it is clear that your client is savvy and should know the value (they paid for them at some point), then I wouldn't feel as bad. But if it's clear they have no clue, you should make them aware.

(3)
U
Undisclosed #3
•Jul 17, 2016

This reminds me of a scenario on Pawn Stars.

Lady came in with what she thought was a replica Faberge piece. She was looking for a fairly paltry sum -- like $2,000 or something. Rick said he'd buy it for that, but wouldn't be able to sleep at night if he did. Ended up paying the woman like $75K for the egg.

In my mind, whether they know they're being screwed or not, they are still being screwed, and to me, that's just not OK. I'd have that on my conscience going forward. I'd rather do something like "Hey, you mentioned I can just take this stuff down and keep it -- but I should tell you, there's quite a bit of value here. What if I take it down, resell it for you, then we split the profits from the sale? I'll do all the work, you get free money you weren't going to have either way.

Everybody wins. Now, they may say, no, screw you, that's my stuff and I want all the profits -- and that's fine. It wasn't yours to begin with, but at least I could sleep that night.

(1)
U
Undisclosed #1
•Jul 17, 2016
IPVMU Certified
In reply to Undisclosed #3

Now, they may say, no, screw you, that's my stuff and I want all the profits --

No good deed goes unpunished. :)

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Gert Molkens
•Jul 23, 2016
IPVMU Certified

This happens a lot when buildings are refurbished. Ever thought about the value of the old copper cables that are being removed? I know an installation company that, at a certain point in time, had someone employed just to strip the removed cables so that they could sell the bare copper instead of cable. The difference was more than big enough to get someone payed to do just that.

They had a 'heated room' in which temperature was kept high enough to make the stripping go a lot easier and hence faster.

Need to say they were mor in industrial than commercial buildings so more power and bigger cable sections

DW
Dennis Widdows
•Jul 25, 2016

I have had this happen with " OLD" equipment removals and the commercial customers we deal with don't care...I will usually upgrade them on something if it is something I can reuse...many times the stuff ends up on our shop system lol...

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