Subscriber Discussion

Eoc Or VDSL For IP Links Over Existing Coax Cables?

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Gert Molkens
Nov 10, 2016
IPVMU Certified

In video surveillance solutions there's we almost automatically turn to EoC  converters such as Veracity etc. but there are also VDSL solutions such as Allied Telesis MC606 who basically provide the same functionality. However, if you take the VDSL road you can add a PoE switch after the VDSL converter and use a single coax/VDSL connection for multiple cameras

Has anyone compared the two solutions in a real project and if so, what were the findings?

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Brian Rhodes
Nov 12, 2016
IPVMU Certified

I am not familiar enough with this setup to comment much, other than to say the only attempt at using it I was a part of just flat out didn't work. Ethernet network TCP/IP data was broken and video did not stream as expected.

I was only tangentially involved, and basically I was there to investigate replacing everything with fiber. Hopefully someone has better experience here, but it just isn't common at all for video surveillance.

U
Undisclosed #1
Nov 12, 2016
IPVMU Certified

...other than to say the only attempt at using it I was a part of just flat out didn't work. Ethernet network TCP/IP data was broken and video did not stream as expected.

Was it an EoC or a VDSL solution?

U
Undisclosed #1
Nov 12, 2016
IPVMU Certified

However, if you take the VDSL road you can add a PoE switch after the VDSL converter and use a single coax/VDSL connection for multiple cameras...

EoC has the same functionality as far as that is concerned, here's NVT

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Gert Molkens
Nov 12, 2016
IPVMU Certified

U1, this graphic is somewhat different than what i meant. In you graphic you have an NV-EC1701 at every camera.

However, what i'm looking at is that those 4 camera's are close to each other, mounted on the same pole in fact. ith VDSL i would use only one of the 4 existing coax cables as a 'backbone' connecton. On the pole i would then have one VDSL converter and one PoE switch to replace the existing analog camera's with four IP camera's.

That would be:

1/ cheaper

2/ if i use a managed PoE switch, the abaility to remote power cycle the camera's. Maybe that works with EoC as well, don't know enough of it to be sure about that

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Undisclosed #1
Nov 12, 2016
IPVMU Certified

U1, this graphic is somewhat different than what i meant. In you graphic you have an NV-EC1701 at every camera.

However, what i'm looking at is that those 4 camera's are close to each other, mounted on the same pole in fact.

So for that setup you would use something like the e-bridge from altronix:

One coax to 4,8,16 POE ports.

Not sure if they have a managed switch.

UI
Undisclosed Integrator #2
Nov 12, 2016

Vigitron and Veracity have products that fulfill a similar purpose with breakout from single Coax to 4 port Ethernet at the remote location. However, both would need power at the pole to provide POE.

Regarding Allied Telesis one of our PMs uses them, at client request. He is not a fan due to the complexity and chooses to use Comnet wherever possible.

(1)
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Jon Dillabaugh
Nov 12, 2016
Pro Focus LLC

Gert,

Do you need PoE power at the end of your coax link or do you have local power? If PoE isn't needed for all four devices, and you aren't going over the max throughput of the link, there shouldn't be any reason why an EoC link wouldn't support a remote switch. IP packets are IP packets. For this layer of networking, it really doesn't matter if there is only one host or dozens.

While we haven't used expensive EoC units, nor any VDSL units, we have had good luck with the Everfocus Paluns. As cheap as they are, you would expect much more issues. We had some DOA units, but you will have that from time to time.

As a side note, if this doesn't work, have you considered a wireless backhaul link as a plan B?

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Gert Molkens
Nov 12, 2016
IPVMU Certified

Hi John,

i have local power on the poles but the cameras only support PoE and i'll need network anyway so a PoE switch seems logical.

the main issue i see with the Allied Telesis VDSL converters is that these are 'office grade' devices rated for temperatures between 0 and 40 degrees celcius which will surely be surpassed on a pole on a parking lot.

Wireless backhaul is off course an option but considerably more expensive than a cable that's allready there.

concerning EoC, that is/was indeed the question, on what layer of the OSI model is this working?

U
Undisclosed #1
Nov 12, 2016
IPVMU Certified

Gert, does this meet your requirements?

Its the altronix ebridge4spt and ebridge100spr, link. Add a Nema4x box and you should be good to go. (Too bad they dont have a 4 port all in one enclosure like the two port I showed in my last post).

4 ports poe, remote reset of devices, -10 to 50 C.

These devices are operating on layer1 and 2.

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Jon Dillabaugh
Nov 12, 2016
Pro Focus LLC

Ethernet is simply layer 1.

U
Undisclosed #1
Nov 12, 2016
IPVMU Certified

1 and 2.

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Gert Molkens
Nov 13, 2016
IPVMU Certified

U1, yes i guess that would work. I do still have to verify the distances to be sure the 456m coax limit is adequate

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Gert Molkens
Nov 13, 2016
IPVMU Certified

By the way, note that the VDSL Allied Telesis box is spec'd to2km distance which is a lot

U
Undisclosed #1
Nov 13, 2016
IPVMU Certified

Though at the limit the bandwidth drops off significantly. You would also need a managed switch, which would increase the cost.

Still, its an interesting product, I wonder why they don't do POE or multi-port switches.

There are other VDSL products that do...

FWIW, I would consider these products to be technically EoC also, since the term does not designate a particular protocol (besides ethernet), just a method.

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