We have done a couple elevators and we used a laser device with analog cameras.
Current client is about 30 stories with no cabling for video. They have talked to the elevator vendor and they are proposing a form of coaxial cable.
I have heard Cat5/6 can have some interference issues? Anyone seen that? At 30 stories we are at the limits of Cat5/6 unless we use extenders.
Has anyone used Ubiquiti here? I heard the radios can burn out from being too close to each other.
Ideas? Suggestions?
I don't think I would attempt wireless in a elevator shaft. Too much could go wrong and servicing it would be a challenge.
I'd use the elevator contractor provided coax with coaxial to ethernet media converters that carry POE/POE+/POE++ depending on your needs. I've had good luck with Altronix and Vigitron, decent results with Veracity, and less than decent results with Comnet mini units. However, the larger Comnet units work fine if you can find somewhere to house the monsters.
Curious on the ComNet stuff. I've got dozens -- maybe even in the hundreds -- of their units out there and have had zero issues. A mix of all, but probably 50% of them are minis at least on one end.
What issues are you having?
In reference to the OP, I personally would not consider any form of IP in the elevators. That is such a small space that a reasonable analog camera will produce a quality image. The handy-dandy IPVM calculator says that you'll get 74ppf out of a 640x480 camera at 5 feet away, which is more than sufficient for just about anything i can think of. Probably the only scenario I can think of for installing an analog camera these days.
Just my opinion. Would be curious to hear if others have a compelling reason to use IP.
Regarding the minis:
Fairly significant failure rate. Units stop responding and dropping/bringing up power does not resolve. We've swapped for Veracity units and everything works fine. It has gotten so bad I keep a reserve of Veracity units in the job box at the site for the next failure. We do have hundreds of the larger units, perhaps thousands, and have very rarely had an issue. Unfortunately, they are too large for this particular sites.
Regarding IP in elevators:
I agree, there is not much of a compelling reason for IP in elevators for the reasons stated, unless audio becomes a requirement.
Only issue I saw with Analog was one one site the doors were super shiny and as the doors opened and closed it would throw the camera off.
I was operations manager not engineering so I just dispatched the tech and let the engineering guy sort it out...
Maybe they were just using the wrong camera
I was thinking coax with an HD camera. Power it from inside the cab?
My advice is use stranded coax (less likely to break from repeatedly bending), and to have the elevator company do it for you.
If you want to use IP, just throw a IP over coax converter and be done with it. Power it off the elevator. Elevator company will give you an outlet on the top of the car if you ask.
In my experience, this is the solution that lasts the longest.
It might be different per state but I know the code in my state requires the elevator company be present if we're so much as in the elevator machinery room. The elevator companies prices reflect this...
I would avoid wireless in that environment for sure. If you have access to a trailing cable I would definitely recommend either installing a coax line and using a converter, or using one of NVT's EC1701 kits and do a ethernet over 2wire (we have had good results with those in elevator shafts). I would also avoid Cat5/6 just from the distance, you're best off with 18/2 or coax- both using converters
We've used Ubiquiti in several elevator shafts with success (mostly on smaller sites as in 10 stories or less, but 30 shouldn't be an issue. Nothing can touch it price wise. The issue will be the elevator guys' cooperation. We were lucky in that there was an independent elevator company owned by a friend of mine that I was dealing with. If there one of the big guys, Thyssen, Otis, etc. forget it. They can be incredibly arrogant and you play by their rules. You'll be looking at them to install a "travel cable" and they ain't cheap. One such cable for a 4 story building was quoted at about $3k for one customer. You'll still have to deal with termination at each end, power for the device, and connectivity back to your network. Most elevator cabs have 110 ac on top of the cab and you can just tap into it. You'll have to work with the elevator guy to install whatever option you choose. Generally that means putting the elevator in service mode, manually dropping it a few feet and then opening the doors so you can access the top of the cab. Then you have to deal with the equipment at the top of the shaft, which can be easier in some respects.
Good luck.
I have been using the nvt devices recently, which has been a game changer. 95 percent of elevators have a pair of 16 or 18 gauge wire available, so I normally do not even investigate this. Last one I did was 13 stories. Make sure you put in your quote that customer pays for elevator company time. Normally half a day with us on site and the elevator company we can do a single or dual elevator. The NVT sends POE over the 2 wire, so power is not even needed. Just run a network drop to the machine room.
I do not see a reason to use any other methods. The NVT device pair with 2wire balun is about 600 bucks. Usually quoted over the phone without site visit for 2k per elevator plus customer costs for their elevator company. Before this, the investigation often led to costly cabling adds to the travelerer cable, which many times led to customer balking at the final project.
Be sure to let the elevator company be there for installation (I have elevator conpany install or insist with installation of the camera, since the elevator and cabling is their liability).
This would largely depend on the use/monitoring of the video. If it is forensic and not absolute real-time, then WiFi can work in an edge environment. Power is stable and today's WiFi coverage in many buildings is exceptional. No cabling and only moments of off-line time which quickly integrates if using a top-end VMS.
I wonder if homeplug (ethernet over power) technology would work? Maybe distance limmitation would come into play?
Hik just released a elevator wifi pair, DS-3WF01C-2NE, not long ago.
Use the Hikvision DS-2CD2532F-IVS with and SD card and problem could be solved. You have an incident walk near the cab with a compatible bluetooth device and Wa-La you have recorded video.
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