Subscriber Discussion

Elevator People Count

JS
John Saunders
•Mar 31, 2017
IPVMU Certified

I'm wondering if this is do-able (and if so, any systems in particular?):

Access control in the elevator in an office building, meaning I need to read to get to my floor. ACS counts the reads - there should be 7 people in the elevator as it leaves the parkade. CCTV/VMS in the elevator counts people. There are 9 in the elevator. Could be an intruder, could be tail gating. An alarm goes out through VMS or ACS to concierge, or other monitor.

I'm guessing someone could custom write this, just wondering if it exists out of the box, more or less. Thanks.

UM
Undisclosed Manufacturer #1
•Mar 31, 2017

To do something like this you would need to force each person to present their card in the elevator. This will be difficult to enforce (for example, if you and I work on the same floor and you presented your card, what forces me to also present my card?).

Tailgating is difficult to prevent in elevators- I'm not sure how you can force each person to present a card

JS
John Saunders
•Mar 31, 2017
IPVMU Certified
In reply to Undisclosed Manufacturer #1

Oh, I agree that there are issues - and that is the main one I identified for the client. At the end of the day, security usually fails because of people, not tech. I'm just wondering if it is technically feasible, ignoring the people part of the equation.

U
Undisclosed #2
•Mar 31, 2017
IPVMU Certified
In reply to Undisclosed Manufacturer #1

This will be difficult to enforce (for example, if you and I work on the same floor and you presented your card, what forces me to also present my card?).

"Warning: Elevator has an unauthorized occupant who is required to present card before departure.  Or all must exit and re-enter."

Certainly not a message one would want to hear in error.  On the other hand, if it were reliable, it's not something the offender would likely try again.

An AC equipped elevator is kind of like a moving man-trap, this allows you to deny access (to another floor) when more riders are detected than are authorized.

Avatar
Brian Karas
•Mar 31, 2017
IPVM

The coding side of this would be pretty easy, IMO.  A big challenge is finding a people-counter with to-the-person accuracy in a tight space with a relatively low ceiling (the elevator).  Considering how often elevators are used, and how often they can get jammed with people during peak times, you need something that has near 100% accuracy to avoid this being a daily source of false alarms.

 

JS
John Saunders
•Mar 31, 2017
IPVMU Certified

Thanks. Agree with you ... lots of issues, but systems could be coded this way it seems. Maybe not a good idea, for the reasons mentioned, but a possible idea.

U
Undisclosed #3
•Apr 01, 2017

Perhaps IEE can tweak their application to help you out. GIYF.

U
Undisclosed #4
•Apr 01, 2017

I feel like trying to use video in this instance would be a total nightmare. As Brian points out -- cramped space, low ceiling. 

What about a device that mounts to the exterior of the elevator entry that counts people as they go by, and then outputs a quantity that has to match the number of badge reads? 

Seems way easier than trying to use video, and probably just as inaccurate.

U
Undisclosed #5
•Apr 01, 2017

To overcome the issue of more than one person exiting on a floor when only one person has swiped their access card for that floor, I think you would have to control access before the people get into the elevator.

Install a turnstile in front of the elevators that requires a badge to access them (think metrocard and subway).  That way, each person who enters the elevator area is accounted for.

(2)
Avatar
Kestutis Nagys
•Apr 03, 2017

I would recommend test Cognimatics 3D counter to count persons entering elevator. Very high accuracy and can be installed at door height level.

JS
John Saunders
•Apr 03, 2017
IPVMU Certified

I appreciate all the input people, thanks.

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