Subscriber Discussion

Does Anyone Else Think This Avigilon Advert Is In Poor Taste?

UI
Undisclosed Integrator #1
Oct 11, 2017

I think Avigilon could have chosen a better way to advertise their detector than showing what appears to be a homeless person sleeping near a cash machine.

Vote:

(1)
U
Undisclosed #2
Oct 11, 2017

I do think it's in poor taste even if just photoshopped, and I don't really understand what they're trying to say with that picture.

(3)
JH
John Honovich
Oct 11, 2017
IPVM

I added the picture directly to the discussion. They have been using that for a while, including in the press release here.

It seems like they photoshopped a girl/guy in a sleeping bag on a stock photo of an ATM:

(1)
(1)
UE
Undisclosed End User #5
Oct 11, 2017

That's not a homeless person... Ironically it's Alanis Morissette

Image result for alanis morissette isn't it ironic

(1)
(15)
U
Undisclosed #8
Oct 12, 2017

This bum is livin’ large... that’s all Patagonia product he’s sportin’.

(6)
U
Undisclosed #3
Oct 11, 2017
IPVMU Certified

That explains the free ASIS pillow giveaway*

*Satire

(11)
UM
Undisclosed Manufacturer #4
Oct 11, 2017

Not to be confused with the Milestone pillow?

(8)
U
Undisclosed #3
Oct 11, 2017
IPVMU Certified

Wait, that's a Milestone pillow???  And ONSSI OEMed them?

(10)
UM
Undisclosed Manufacturer #6
Oct 12, 2017

To me it looks a bit like a soap bar...

UI
Undisclosed Integrator #7
Oct 12, 2017

I put good taste and regret it.  If there was a middle of the road selection I would have picked that.  I know they are trying to communicate the value of this product and the whole sleeping in an ATM cube seems to be their big pitch.  I don’t work on ATMs or banks so I am outside the demographic for this ad.  I get what they are trying to communicate but not really sure cannot see what makes it poor taste or good taste, aside from the usual stock image photoshopping marketers seem to love.

UM
Undisclosed Manufacturer #6
Oct 12, 2017

 I put good taste and regret it. 

I put good taste and do not regret it. I don't think it is particularly well done, but it is a valid situation that they are depicting.

About 20 years ago, downtown Montreal at night, I remember being in one of those ATM rooms that had a rather heavy door to the street and there was a homeless man, weirdly crawling about on the floor - probably on drugs. As I was leaving, I held the door open for a lady who was entering in a wheel chair. She was finding it hard to get in, so if she had to leave in a hurry she would have found it difficult to get out. There were other people around, but to this day I still cringe that I didn't stay to make sure she was OK. So, I think it is absolutely inappropriate for anyone to use those areas other than for their intended purpose.

 

 

(2)
UI
Undisclosed Integrator #1
Oct 12, 2017

I'm sure they could find a far better way of describing a use for this tech. Maybe like axis have done with their solution than using the homeless situation. I would also argue that there are probably far cheaper ways of detecting a person indoor in a lit environment than radar. Also I'm sure this vertical is only done by a small group of integrator's and it probably wouldn't be that hard for Avigilon to target them via a more private form of communication if they felt this was a key area for that product.

I'm surprised living in Canada you don't understand the human need for shelter! I've slept out in minus 10 but that was with the army and i had decent kit and food. I wouldn't like to do this in a Canadian winter.

Remember also that many people (and you probably know a few but don't realise it) are only a few pay cheques away from being homeless themselves.

(1)
UM
Undisclosed Manufacturer #6
Oct 12, 2017

I'm surprised living in Canada you don't understand the human need for shelter!

Remember also that many people (and you probably know a few but don't realise it) are only a few pay cheques away from being homeless themselves.

but who is it that deals with the man in the image? The police do, not the average person with their stereotypes. Keep these areas under surveillance and let the experts decide whether to provide him with alternative shelter, move him along, refer him to social welfare authorities who may help him, or just leave him... In my experience, the police are generally not hostile towards homeless people, many local to an area are well known to the police and other locals, don't cause any harm, and the police are just as likely to have their welfare at heart as anyone else.

So I don't think the image is in bad taste because I don't think anything particularly bad is going to happen to him if he is approached by the appropriate authorities. At least not in any country I have lived.

Avatar
Ethan Ace
Oct 12, 2017

I think it's a really weird advert. But this is exactly one of the things they're marketing it for, so I'm not surprised.

I'm pretty sure that's a stock photo of a hipster camping at Coachella, though.

(2)
(1)
(6)
UI
Undisclosed Integrator #9
Oct 12, 2017

Issues with the homeless and vestibules has been around for quite awhile.  

Some attempts to solve the problem are/were using access control to prevent access, but tailgating occurred instead or using body fluids to trigger a RTE device.

I could see this device used in public transportation where people have been left in trains or buses on a positive note, from one recent settlement as a disabled child was left overnight in a school bus comes to mind.

Maybe used in modern buildings with refuge areas to provide notice of someone there, or trapped elevators.

There was a requirement for occupancy detection in elevators to make sure the cab was empty before being called to a secure floor from an insecure area at an airport.

While it is a valid use to solve a valid problem they might have gone another way.  

I will give them credit for not using a person sleeping at the bottom of a parking structure stairwell since that brings up visual and aromatic memories. 

UI
Undisclosed Integrator #10
Oct 16, 2017

Finding a solution for this exact problem hasn't been easy over the years.

We have needed a solution for cash machines & indoor post office boxes in the past.

Rewind 5 - 10 years ago and try to detect this with video analytics??

I think its advertised at the target market and there is no malice intended.

(1)
UI
Undisclosed Integrator #11
Oct 17, 2017

I heard whispers that they came up with this device specifically because of bank customers asking for a solution to the problem of vagrants sleeping in their ATM kiosks. So no this isn't poor taste, this is advertising to thier customer demographic.

(3)
UI
Undisclosed Integrator #1
Oct 17, 2017

UD 10 i dont need to rewind the clock its 2017 so why cant it be done today in a well lit area like in the advert?

UD11  my point as above in first reply that's a small group of installers why not contact them direct or contact the bank chains.

Avatar
Brian Karas
Oct 17, 2017
IPVM

Detecting people camped out in spaces like ATM vestibules is actually very challenging. We had several banking customers at VideoIQ using or attempting to use analytics for exactly this purpose. The challenge is that when someone lays down, covers up with blankets or newspapers, and then stays relatively still it is extremely difficult for the analytics to continue to perceive them there. It becomes even more challenging if the cameras view gets blocked, such as by a person entering and/or standing in front of the person laying down that you want to detect.

When the Microsoft Kinect first shipped, we discussed at VideoIQ using a form of that technology for this purpose, but it had other issues (range and sunlight washing out the IR projected dots for example).

Thermal cameras are expensive, and do not always see well through things like jackets and blankets to give a clear image of a person in this application.

The most practical solution is something with good depth sensing, and that offers flexibility in placement, as some of these areas are cramped, have low ceilings, or other restrictions on how/where detecting devices can be mounted. This eliminates stereo-vision cameras much of the time as well.

This radar-based approach is really one of the most logical ways to solve this problem, and I can tell you from first-hand experience it is a pretty significant problem for a lot of banks. I think Avigilon is using this ad so that their top target market does not have to draw any inferences from an ad that might be a little "softer", but less obvious in application.

(2)
(2)
Avatar
Mark Espenschied
Oct 17, 2017

Brian, you are consistently awesome. But you just took all the fun out of this survey. :-)

(1)
Avatar
Brian Karas
Oct 17, 2017
IPVM

LOL. Thanks? You're welcome? Not sure how to reply :)

 

 

(1)
U
Undisclosed #12
Oct 17, 2017

Clearly you've never been to Vancouver if you're confused/surprised by this ad. 

UI
Undisclosed Integrator #1
Oct 17, 2017

No I haven't but in the UK where I'm from they tried putting homeless spikes on the ground to stop something similar until it was met with a back-lash from the public.

You don't solve problems by moving them on.

(2)
(1)
Avatar
Mark Espenschied
Oct 17, 2017

If he had been urinating on the ATM machine, that would have been in bad taste.

My objection is to the graphic quality of the execution. A little clinical for me. Maybe things really are different in Canada. But I do not object to the idea. However, if it had been my idea, I might have suggested something more threatening.

(1)
(1)
UI
Undisclosed Integrator #13
Oct 17, 2017

Lack of humanity IMHO.. reminds me of a company we did a job and a wireless link bounced off a disused building. The link kept dropping.. we visited with the client and it turned out a homeless guy had plugged in a heater and disconnected the cover off the electric box to power the heater. We came back with an extension lead connected his heater and the link, put the cover on and said if it goes off we will have to come back etc 

It never went off and he didn’t freeze to death...

 

(2)
(1)
(2)
New discussion

Ask questions and get answers to your physical security questions from IPVM team members and fellow subscribers.

Newest discussions