Subscriber Discussion

Do You Regularly Reboot Cameras?

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Ethan Ace
Jul 21, 2017

Setting up a new Dahua model for testing, and it shipped set to auto reboot every Saturday morning (at 2:48 AM, oddly). 

Does anyone use this feature in the field? Do cameras start to exhibit odd behavior if you don't reboot them? Have there been specific installs which benefited from a reboot? 

MM
Michael Miller
Jul 21, 2017

Mobotix is the only one that I know that reboots automatically by default. 

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Brandon Knutson
Jul 21, 2017
IPVMU Certified

I wish Arecont multi-sensor cameras could auto reboot as they can see occasional issues that a reboot can solve. Heck, you can't even manually reboot Arecont cameras from the web GUI. Good for Dahua for giving the option.

The number 248 has some religious meanings. None of which mean 2nd largest.

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Kevin Bennett
Jul 24, 2017

I have several of the multi-sensor devices in remote locations (parking lots, mainly).  Where I could, I installed small managed PoE switches instead of media converters so that I could remotely toggle power to the cameras (toggle PoE in the switch) rather than having to go out to the remote circuit breaker panel. 

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SD
Shannon Davis
Jul 21, 2017
IPVMU Certified

We don't typically reboot cameras automatically but to me it's not a bad idea either considering half the time I can fix a camera remotely with just a simple reboot most of the time. I know the Pelco cameras several years ago had multiple reboot options. 

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Brian Rhodes
Jul 21, 2017
IPVMU Certified

From way back, the 'Golden Rule' for IT problem solving is 'reboot first, then evaluate'. 

In general, that adage still works well, even with IP cameras.  But doing it preemptively seems like a nuclear solution to prevent buggy behavior issues.

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MM
Michael Miller
Jul 21, 2017

Also, clears out the logs to you can't trouble shoot the issue.

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UI
Undisclosed Integrator #1
Jul 21, 2017

What cameras are you working with? Most of the cameras I have seen are storing their log files in ROM so that they are preserved after a reboot.

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U
Undisclosed
Jul 24, 2017

most cameras I've seen have zero logs, in memory or not.  where did you find logs?  Are you talking about the obscure-but-documented syslog in Axis cameras?

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Kevin Bennett
Jul 24, 2017

Axis has a "system log" and Avigilon has a "device log" on all the models we are using from those two manufacturers. Hikvision also appears to have a log generator in the models we use, but I have not tried to use it.

I have never seen a log option for Arecont Vision or Pelco (but I find Pelco's GUI to be hard to navigate and could have missed it).

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Brian Karas
Jul 21, 2017
IPVM

I consider "needs frequent reboots" to be at the opposite end of the spectrum from "reliable/enterprise equipment". Any device I received that came out of the box set to reboot at any given interval (even 1 year) would immediately lower my opinion of it and make me consider it as only good for 2nd-tier level use.

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UM
Undisclosed Manufacturer #2
Jul 21, 2017

Agreed, it would be better if the cameras had some kind of "watch dog" that only rebooted if it detected a problem. On the other hand, the absence of such a feature doesn't indicate reliability, and we have had customer requests to add a feature to our VMS that automatically reboots a camera if it fails to connect on the second attempt after loosing the connection - this can be done via ONVIF commands for example.

As someone who has written several VMS drivers for different cameras, I see things from a different perspective than installers, and get the idea that the state of software in many camera brands is shoddy, and it is a pain for VMS developers. It is not uncommon for cameras to gradually slow down and lock up over a period of time if you connect to them via the VMS with too many features enabled, or too many streams for instance - eventually requiring a reboot. 

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UI
Undisclosed Integrator #1
Jul 21, 2017

Rebooting the cameras periodically seems to help with a lot of little issues I have seen in the field. I have scripts setup on multiple sites which allow customers/operators and schedules to reboot the cameras in a staggered manner. 9 time out of 10 power cycling the equipment tends to fix most minor issues and it is nice to know that it can be done in a precise/controlled manner. 

JH
John Honovich
Jul 21, 2017
IPVM

I have scripts setup on multiple sites which allow customers/operators and schedules to reboot the cameras in a staggered manner.

#1, do the customer/operators manually trigger the script or is it set to run automatically on a schedule? Curious how it is implemented.

UI
Undisclosed Integrator #1
Jul 21, 2017

Both. Depending on the environment we try to have it setup so that the customer can reboot everything via script as part of our phone troubleshooting and then we schedule a staggered reboot once a week/month depending on the cameras used on site.

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Harrison Mitchell
Jul 21, 2017

I feel like having to reboot cameras was more of an issue just a couple years ago but it seems that things have gotten better. I don't do as many service calls where a camera reboot was the fix.

JH
John Honovich
Jul 21, 2017
IPVM

How much is anyone concerned about automatic rebooting causing problems? For example, a rebooted camera not reconnecting to a VMS?

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Brandon Knutson
Jul 21, 2017
IPVMU Certified

I wouldn't want to automatically reboot cameras. It could result in not reconnecting to the VMS and (in my case) the VMS will send a "camera off-line" event message.

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Ethan Ace
Jul 21, 2017

We checked a couple other Dahua models and both are set to reboot times Saturday overnight.

FLIR OEM cameras did not, however:

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Jon Dillabaugh
Jul 21, 2017
Pro Focus LLC

Dahuas are always defaulted to 2AM Tuesdays. Even all of the OEMs have this. I have never observed anything except the default.

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Ethan Ace
Jul 21, 2017

Even all of the OEMs have this

I obviously can't vouch for every OEM, but that's an overstatement.

I checked FLIR (N437VEW) and Honeywell, both running 2+ year old firmware, and it's disabled by default:

The recent Panasonic OEM also disables it by default:

And Speco's OEM camera doesn't even give you the option:

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Jon Dillabaugh
Jul 21, 2017
Pro Focus LLC

Ok, I haven't tried the "branded" OEMs, so I guess when I say OEM, I mean the "generic" OEMs. If I want branded, I will buy Dahua branded. If I want to save $$$ I get "generic" OEM.

UM
Undisclosed Manufacturer #3
Jul 22, 2017

I thought the cleaver wording of Auto Maintain was history thing for we have a memory leak boys! is something going back to days of PC based recorders, with captures cards.

How crazy in these times all those device(s) still need to add such an option.

Most device would have their own watchdog on device. If properly written, in case of such issues.

RT OS in modern equipment is at the hands of sloppy developers. Be it poor password policy, lack of security, it's endless.

Well spotted by Ethan,

Next maybe take a look at Dahua self-signed SSL certificate and change camera date 3years on, and see if it's still valid! ;-)

 

 

 

 

TB
Tim Ballman
Jul 24, 2017

I reboot my servers weekly, all set on a schedule cmd. It does cause alarms to come through but I know its the reboot with the time stamp of the alarm for camera down.

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Kevin Bennett
Jul 24, 2017

We do not reboot unless there is a reason.  We have cameras from several different manufacturers, and the only ones we have every had a recurring problem with, and that only a reboot would solve, were ones from a particular manufacturer who did not offer a reboot option in the first place (had to have power toggled in order to accomplish reboot).

I am in agreement with others that if the device has to be rebooted regularly, there is likely a buggy firmware implementation (either previously or ongoing) that is/was being addressed.  I would not consider such devices to be "enterprise" devices.

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JH
John Honovich
Jul 24, 2017
IPVM

Good discussion all. Note, I added this for a future survey question so we can get some statistics and patterns across integrators.

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Hans Kahler
Jul 24, 2017
Eagle Eye Networks

Full disclosure - I work for Eagle Eye Networks, and we sell PoE Switches

We have recently released the ability to control our PoE Switches from within our UI.  It allows authorized users to reset the power on a camera by camera basis, without knowing which switch/port the cameras are plugged into.  (for example reset the power on the front door camera.)

As we were researching/designing this feature, I had mixed feedback from Dealers.  Some absolutely loved the option, which I expected.  However, there were a large number of people that said something like "I would never use that, I don't need to restart cameras."  I couldn't get to the bottom of why they wouldn't even want the option.  The best I came up with is that they just don't monitor the systems regularly.  

My personal belief is that there are quite a few cameras out in the world that are not working, and people just don't know about it or don't care enough to power cycle them. 

 

TB
Tim Ballman
Jul 24, 2017

Only time I use a switch to power cycle a camera port is if I am unable to log into the camera and reboot it directly. 9 out of 10 times I'm able to get into the camera to power cycle but occasionally I have to use the PoE route and cycle power from the switch. It is a good feature to have as it saves time on having to travel to the site and manually reboot a device. If you work at the same site as the camera I can see this not being an important feature. I have a 7 county jurisdiction so its important to me.

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Hans Kahler
Jul 24, 2017
Eagle Eye Networks

That's a good point, if someone has the knowledge and connectivity to be able to log into a camera directly, the PoE power cycle is less important.  

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Kevin Bennett
Jul 24, 2017

Having the option to reboot remotely through a management tool - when you need it - is a great idea.  Having cameras that apparently require regular reboots in order to keep working is not such a good thing.

We monitor the status of our devices (400+ cameras, 10 servers) multiple times daily.  Issues that require a simple reboot of a device are in a VERY small minority of the problems we experience. 

Introducing regular reboots (the original topic), in my opinion, also introduces additional opportunities for connections to "break", particularly in our instance where we are using cameras from numerous manufacturers, all of which have varying degrees of integration with our VMS.

Others' mileage may vary, of course. 

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