Critique This Museum's Camera Install?

JH
John Honovich
Oct 05, 2016
IPVM

Saw this at a museum:

Here is the back view:

And from the side (it's a Supercircuits camera):

And here is an overview of the camera in the hallway:

So what do you think? Good? Bad?

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RR
Richard Ramsowr
Oct 05, 2016

Bad

Poor mounting location no solid foundation

When those pipes become active you're going to get movement

The I-beam above or the wall would have been a better locations and the wiring should have been better protected.

Rick

Just a through or two...

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Ari Erenthal
Oct 05, 2016
Chesapeake & Midlantic

When those pipes become active you're going to get movement

Noticeable movement? Movement that interferes with the proper operation of the camera? Movement that lasts longer than a few seconds?

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KL
Keefe Lovgren
Oct 05, 2016
IPVMU Certified

Am I seeing a zip-tye holding that camera to the strut?

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JH
John Honovich
Oct 05, 2016
IPVM

Yes, it was a zip tie. No, I have no idea who the integrator was or if they did it themselves.

UM
Undisclosed Manufacturer #1
Oct 05, 2016

Low bidder or self-integrator?

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UM
Undisclosed Manufacturer #2
Oct 05, 2016

The incompetence in our industry never ceases to amaze me. "Hey, let's just tie wrap the camera up there on the hot water pipe tray...we'll only need one tie wrap...and just think, we can just tie wrap the extra wire around the pipes...after all, they're insulated...no problem!" On the bright side, they took the time to trim the tie wrap tail.

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UI
Undisclosed Integrator #3
Oct 05, 2016
Step 2: Slam trunk, go home.
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John Bazyk
Oct 05, 2016
Command Corporation • IPVMU Certified

Is that a zip tie?

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Brian Rhodes
Oct 05, 2016
IPVMU Certified

It's sloppy and messy and looks like junk, but it probably works to expectation.

Ziptie aside, I've seen worse out of 'professional' installers.

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Brian Rhodes
Oct 05, 2016
IPVMU Certified

In formal (outside the security market) engineering positions I've held, installation effort/cost is estimated as a multiple or fraction of material cost.

For example, If a bridge uses $1 million in steel and concrete, then labor should be 75% of that, for a total price of $1.75 million.

So with that principle in mind, what is an appropriate install cost for this camera?

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Joseph Marotta
Oct 05, 2016
IPVMU Certified

The installer should be ashamed. Is this located in a commercial building? A museum? The install seems more like it belongs in someone's garage.

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U
Undisclosed #4
Oct 05, 2016
IPVMU Certified

He's probably coming back, look he left his ladder in the ceiling :)

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Brandon Knutson
Oct 05, 2016
IPVMU Certified

Poor work, but... As a former museum guy, I can say this type of quick install would happen if a precious artifact was planned to be in the camera's view for a week or less. Very temporary.

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JH
John Honovich
Oct 05, 2016
IPVM

This was in the main entrance pointed at the registration desk.

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Brandon Knutson
Oct 05, 2016
IPVMU Certified

Oh boy :(

U
Undisclosed #4
Oct 06, 2016
IPVMU Certified

I think its maybe part of the zip-tie velcro exhibit:

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AC
Andrew Cordell
Oct 06, 2016
IPVMU Certified

Sadly it is far from the worst I have seen. I do give the installer credit for matching the zip ties to the decor. ;o)

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Ross Vander Klok
Oct 06, 2016
IPVMU Certified

Horrible. Any other cameras in there? I am thinking maybe this was their "Hey lets put out an obvious camera so people know we are watching" camera. Maybe? Even if it was an intentional placement to draw attention to the camera they could have done a much better job mounting it.

JH
John Honovich
Oct 06, 2016
IPVM

I did not scope the whole museum but there was another camera mounted on the wall right behind the registration desk (same model I believe).

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Jon Dillabaugh
Oct 06, 2016
Pro Focus LLC

I would LOVE to know how to make this worse?

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Brian Rhodes
Oct 06, 2016
IPVMU Certified

1. double stick tape

2. splices

3. paper solar/glare shield

(It can always get worse.)

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Jon Dillabaugh
Oct 06, 2016
Pro Focus LLC

1) One could argue double stick tape could be more permanent lol

2) You can tell from those images that splices don't exist? Just well hidden ones maybe, which are actually worse than visible ones. Ha!

3) I wondered why there was even a sun shield on it, but if you are using zip ties as fasteners, you probably don't care about aesthetics.

U
Undisclosed #6
Oct 07, 2016

"3) I wondered why there was even a sun shield on it.."

That's a grease shield for the pipe joints that they installed the camera under.

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Jon Dillabaugh
Oct 07, 2016
Pro Focus LLC

We've had to pull wire through an area below a bar where the grease trap was. Nasty AF!

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U
Undisclosed #4
Oct 06, 2016
IPVMU Certified

Wifi, Magnetic Mount, State-controlled zip-ties.

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Jon Dillabaugh
Oct 06, 2016
Pro Focus LLC

I wish I could vote "Funny" way more than once 😂

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Joseph Marotta
Oct 06, 2016
IPVMU Certified

black zip ties

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Jon Dillabaugh
Oct 06, 2016
Pro Focus LLC

You got all of that one! You win

UM
Undisclosed Manufacturer #5
Oct 06, 2016

You know what they say:

Fast, quality, or cheap: Pick two.

I'm guessing this customer picked fast and cheap. Doesn't necessarily reflect bad on the integrator if they delivered exactly what the customer was looking for and came in under budget.

U
Undisclosed #4
Oct 06, 2016
IPVMU Certified

Doesn't necessarily reflect bad on the integrator if they delivered exactly what the customer was looking for and came in under budget.

Integrator: Ok, got it, no holes. What about maybe using a bolt thru one of those truss holes already there?

Customer: What bolt? Your bolt, with one of them fancy tops that don't work with a regular screwdriver? Pass.

Integrator: How then?

Customer: Take two zip-ties, 1 for the camera and one for the cable. Use the back hole of the camera mount, that way it will lean over the front in a menacing way.

Integrator: Should I remove the sun shield?

Customer: At your rate?

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Darrel Cross
Oct 06, 2016

Crappy install for a crappy camera....

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AS
Ashley Schofield
Oct 07, 2016

if its stupid and it works, is it still stupid ?

not the first time I've seen something like this, and with prices racing to the bottom, it wont be the last...

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Ross Vander Klok
Oct 07, 2016
IPVMU Certified

Yes.

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Marty Major
Oct 07, 2016
Teledyne FLIR

"if its stupid and it works, is it still stupid ?"

of course it is.

stupid is a relative term, while the fact that 'it works' is a functional outcome.

the two can - and do - coexist in the wild with alarming frequency. :)

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U
Undisclosed #4
Oct 07, 2016
IPVMU Certified
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Paul Grefenstette
Oct 07, 2016

My guess is internal IT staff. Has all the tell tale signs - no idea how to run or secure cable, doesnt own a drill to secure to anything so use white cable tie that comes with patch panel, and finally gave in to all the super circuits mailers he receives with his copy of pc magazine

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JH
John Honovich
Oct 07, 2016
IPVM

Paul, lol, sounds like a compelling theory to me.

finally gave in to all the super circuits mailers he receives with his copy of pc magazine

Btw, is that really the case? does Supercircuits market to IT people in magazines? I am curious.

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Armando Perez
Oct 07, 2016
Hoosier Security and Security Owners Group • IPVMU Certified

Supercircuits sends catalogs to everyone. I've run into their catalogs at logistics companies, restaurants, office buildings, etc etc etc

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Armando Perez
Oct 07, 2016
Hoosier Security and Security Owners Group • IPVMU Certified

Ding ding ding. We have a winner!

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Mark Nay
Oct 10, 2016

The 'ceiling' environment is challenging and the treatment is 'industrial', so making the camera inconspicuous is almost impossible.

I would have at least used white cabling and painted the connectors to match.

Without knowing what the budget was, not sure if some fabricated enclosures (strictly for hiding the technology) would have been supported.

Not knowing the desired FOV for this camera, I would have considered hanging the camera upside down (and adjusted the rotation of the lens) from one of the I-beams.

UD
Undisclosed Distributor #7
Oct 10, 2016

Lazy, lazy, lazy.

Probably installed by a "self taught" company with no real training

LA
Levi Angst
Oct 10, 2016
IPVMU Certified

"You get what you pay for"

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David Coughlin
Oct 12, 2016
Protection One / ADT

This is obviously a bad scenario all around from the mount/platform to the tie wrap, to the likely out of code connection to piping.

Having designed a number of museum camera installations, this example makes me wonder if the museum asked the integrator to install something that they had sitting around. With often small budgets, museum security is not often "museum quality." I find it depends on the quality of the Security Director at the museum as well as the funds available.

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