Subscriber Discussion

Counting People And Crowd Managment

U
Undisclosed #1
Aug 03, 2016

what are the criteria for selecting CCTV camera / sensor that shall be used for counting people?

what do you think about the (Axis F44 main unit + Axis F1005-E sensor) to be used for counting process.

is it recommended to use counting sensor for crowd management applications or not?

Thank You

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Brian Karas
Aug 03, 2016
IPVM

what are the criteria for selecting CCTV camera / sensor that shall be used for counting people?

I think this really depends heavily on the analytics application you are using, and what the recommendations are for coverage area.

Different analytics vendors will have criteria for getting optimal counts. This can include things like amount of time needed to "detect" the person. Some vendors may want wider shots to get more frames of the person moving, while others may prefer tight shots to minimize the number of people that can be in the frame at once, so there is not as much processing load.

You will likely find that for the best results you will need a camera dedicated to the counting function, mounted to get an overhead view of the entry area.

Some solutions also recommend specialized cameras, like 3VR's Time of flight camera, and I have seen others that prefer/use thermal cameras for counting applications.

What is the goal for the crowd management requirement? To count the number of people inside a building/space, detect a large crowd/group in an area, something else?

U
Undisclosed #1
Aug 03, 2016

The goal of the crowd management is Fluidity measurement and Congestion detection.

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Brian Karas
Aug 04, 2016
IPVM

You might be able to find some options for congestion detection, depending on how precise you need to be for that. Still, the camera selection will likely be more dictated by the analytics option you go with, so I would start with trying to find (and test!) an analytics platform that offers what you want and use their recommendations for camera selection.

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Tom McFeely
Aug 04, 2016

It would be good if manufacturers took the counting aspect of things more seriously and not just see this as an analytical tool to use in marketing.

For example, most licensed venues have a limited capacity that's permissible with regard to patron numbers. If the cameras could be trusted to count more accurately, especially at night and in low light conditions, I believe there is a new, potential market for such products.

I'm told that Cognitec are still working on their C5 facial recognition camera that could come in handy for this type of application, and as yet, I've not heard any reports about a new Vivotek counting camera that's just been released.

It would be great if IPVM took these products (and any other similar ones they find) and tested them..... But I know it's not possible to test everything that comes into the marketplace.

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Brian Karas
Aug 04, 2016
IPVM

If the cameras could be trusted to count more accurately, especially at night and in low light conditions, I believe there is a new, potential market for such products.

The problem is the accuracy. Good systems can get accuracy above 90% in ideal conditions, but conditions are not always ideal.

Accuracy tends to be inverse to crowd density, if you have a large group of people coming through the odds are high that the system will undercount and give you bad data.

For the situations you describe, counting people coming in and out of venues (which is, in my experience, often large groups) I think we are still a long ways from having anything that approaches "accurate".

Part of the reason you see a lot of it geared to marketing use is because in that application accuracy is less important. You can get data that is good enough for trend analysis and things like that.

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Kestutis Nagys
Aug 09, 2016

There is nothing special about camera requirements for people counting: you must have good quality picture from camera installed in overhead position. Important things are to cover all entrance width without geometrical distortions (fisheye cameras not useful for this purpose) and have enough frame rate. Resolution is not a key factor, because most analytic applications works fine with resolutions up to 1 MP. Light conditions in most cases are acceptable and you don't need integrated or additional IR, except you have outdoor installation where counting in night time is required and there is no any light sources, so you will need good quality outdoor day/night camera with IR. Try to avoid radical light conditions changes in counting area (direct sunlight, dimmed sliding doors).

There is a lot counting applications running on edge, if you are looking to Axis cameras Cognimatics is one of my favorite. Accuracy is up to 95-99 percent in correctly installed locations, despite of flow density. Axis F44 + Axis F1005-E is good choice, while I would suggest to choose F-1015 sensor because of varifocal lens, so you will have more freedom choosing installation height.

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JE
Jim Elder
Aug 09, 2016
IPVMU Certified

Are there any that do addition to and subtraction from the count where multiple access points are involved?

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Kestutis Nagys
Aug 10, 2016

Cognimatics Web Report (web server application, collecting count data from counters) has Formulas setting, where you can set up any kind of formulas (adding, subtracting, etc) to operate with data sets and get new ones.

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U
Undisclosed #1
Aug 29, 2016

in case of 2 escalators with one counting sensor, is it possible to define 2 counting lines and 2 density zones in the same field of view

UE
Undisclosed End User #2
Aug 29, 2016

If you want accurate data do not use a monocular camera with video analytics, go with a Stereoscopic Sensor that is dedicated for Occupancy Counting and can give the data via multiple outputs. There are too many environmental variables that need to be overcome with monocular sensors.

Plenty of off the shelf options to go with, while they are not cheap they provide accurate data that is +/- 95% reliable once the ground truthing is done properly. If you want to stick with traditional camera manufactures check out Vivotek SC8131.

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U
Undisclosed #1
Aug 30, 2016

- what are the options do u think they can achieve the task?

- what do you think about the (Axis F44 main unit + Axis F1005-E sensor).

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