What Cloud Managed VMSes Should I Look At?

In reply to Clint Hays

Clint,

Can you tell me more about this IDIS solution? I have never heard of them before.

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Clint Hays

IDIS is a South Korean manufacturer of the entire line from cameras, switches, DVR/NVR, displays, and accessories. Their North American office is in the Dallas area along with local tech support and R&D. They sell direct to integrators and are fairly heavy with marketing and promotions inside the industry.

When you are doing something like a green field project you can bring their cameras online with a plug and play system that works through multiple switches, PtP/PtMP radio, and Ethernet adaptors. The cameras then switch from a typical Onvif style device to more of a slave to the NVR which handles all camera configuration. This takes the set up time for each camera down to nearly nothing while reducing the need for IP configuration for each device which can be a huge hassle for some techs.

Their equipment supports a free webhosted redirect service that allows their free software/apps to connect to hardware without any ddns services and only allows their applications to connect. This drastically reduces onsite oonfiguration for each site and this labor. Their free CMS download can manage something around 65000 cameras connected thru various sized recorders or direct to the camera. This software also allows the integrator to jump into the recorder and completely manage the entire system(recorder, switches, cameras, displays) thru their software without the need of a separate software like TeamViewer. So if you connect every system you sell to your service department machines you can instant serviceability to the sites, along with automated health diagnostic reports generated when you want.

Check them out, www.idisglobal.com . I've worked with them for the last few years, I have their cameras on my house, and they are a texhnology partner of ours where we used their cameras for our facial recognition analytics during the last world cup.

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Undisclosed Integrator #1

In reply to Clint Hays

Clint great info!

When you say it can connect through multiple switches wirelessw and adapters are you just talking about them scanning the subnet? How is this any different than what like a Hik NVR does?

How does pricing work with them? Are they similar to Chinese pricing from Hik?

How good is their software and apps? Have you used NX and does it compare with them?

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Clint Hays

I have not seen Hik hardware constantly work with detecting and connecting to cameras not directly plugged into the recorder, but I've had hundreds of IDIS cameras come online instantly across large campuses without a single issue.

Pricing per unit is going to be higher than Chinese of course, but they also include up to a 7 year warranty with their hardware, and I've flipped projects with Chinese BoM's to IDIS comparable and came out much lower total cost of install. The software has no licensing costs, and there are no service agreements or post-sales fees.

I've used NX based software (DW) but it's been a few years so I'm rusty. Every end user that I've set up on their software has loved it for being clean, simple, and reliable. I've had customer's who spouse's weren't trained on the software be able to search, tag, export, and submit video of incidents in a few minutes without support. The client software is absolutely great to connect, configure, and manage hardware remotely which is a huge value for an RMR focused integrator, and for the end user it is very power yet simple. One thing it doesn't do right now is allow you to set a channel's aspect ratio to something better for a corridor style view, but that is a small feature I'd like to see added into the system at some point. Their fisheyes are awesome on both thick client and app though.

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Undisclosed Integrator #1

In reply to Clint Hays

Thanks. In your last reply the last paragraph are you talking about NX/DW compeltely or also talking about IDIS when you are talking about the clients and software?

I guess the question is how does idis software compare to NX?

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Undisclosed Integrator #1

•Apr 12, 2019

Clint just following up on this question?

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Clint Hays

•Apr 12, 2019

I haven't used the NX software in any recent releases so I can not give any opinions on it.

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Matthew Del Salto

•Dec 09, 2018

Hudson Security

100% would recommend DW Spectrum. They specifically have the ability to use the cloud to bypass port forwarding and maintain access to NVRs as long as the internet is up. They do sell premade NVRs or you can build your own. Check out digital watchdogs website, they have an end to end solution. There is no monthly cost, your techs can have a single login to all of the systems and the mobile app is the best in the game right now in my opinion. Playback and live view is actually a pleasure. I have had nothing but happy integrators and endusers with the NX/DW solutions. Oh yeah H265, and ONVIF support not to mention a robust API.

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Undisclosed Integrator #2

•Dec 09, 2018

Funny, I was going to post the same question.

We are looking at Vivotek, Hanwah, and DW as an alternative/replacement for Dahua.

The rep we spoke with from DW says the browser based access will get you to live view and playback, but if you need to export video, you have to download the client. I have not had time to demo or pursue. Does anyone know if you can export video from the browser?

We like the idea of the browser based system because we have clients with multiple locations, and multiple people at various sites that need various access. DW seemed like a good option for browser based support but we need to find out about the export.

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Undisclosed Manufacturer #3

In reply to Undisclosed Integrator #2

You cannot export from the browser. Live view is also limited to a single camera at a time.

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Evgeny Balashov

In reply to Undisclosed Integrator #2

Actually, there is a way to export in the browser, but it is not obvious, unfortunately, but it works.

There is a link to download a part of the archive in the Camera Details panel.

Check this video: https://monosnap.com/file/IHsBuHU4dc0ymbqmTYGww1m9vS0NNK

To access this camera details panel in the Cloud Portal - add &debug to the URL and reload the page

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Undisclosed Integrator #2

•May 31, 2019

In reply to Evgeny Balashov

How exactly do you add and debug the URL? I watched the video but did not see that explained.

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Shannon Davis

IPVMU Certified

This will be interesting to see what people have to say and their experiences. I am not totally convinced having video stored in the cloud instead of locally. I agree the cloud management if crucial though in the right circumstances. My main issue with the cloud storage without some type of local backup or buffer is I haven't seen an internet connection that is rock solid yet. We have Google fiber here in Kansas City and even the almighty Google goes down. I agree down the road this is how most of our systems will be, stored in the cloud.

I know Exacq has their cloud management portion although I think it is a little cumbersome. They really have just one software option with their system though U1. They just have their different levels, Starter, Pro and Enterprise. They also have their all-in-one NVR's as well. Their mobile app is not the easiest to use and is still rather clunky looking.

For that matter I haven't seen a video app that operates smoothly or looks good yet. There maybe one out there I just haven't seen it yet.

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Ian Siemer

OpenEye

Yes, OpenEye will be adding H.265 and H.265+ support in 2019.

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Undisclosed Integrator #1

In reply to Ian Siemer

How soon in 2019 considering we are a couple of weeks away from 2019 starting?

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Undisclosed Integrator #1

•Apr 05, 2019

In reply to Ian Siemer

Did you add H.265 and H.265+ support?

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Ian Siemer

•Apr 15, 2019

OpenEye

It is not yet released but is still planned for 2019.

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Christopher Uiterwyk

•Dec 11, 2018

IPConfigure

Hi UI1, do you have time for a demo of Orchid? Our largest cloud customer is operating hundreds of fast food restaurants with integration to POS through our application partner platforms (APPs) Regards -Chris

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Undisclosed Integrator #1

In reply to Christopher Uiterwyk

Yes, but first the question would be, do you have any prebuilt OEM hardware we could buy that has POE built in, and wouldn't require us to load software onto a machine?

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Christopher Uiterwyk

IPConfigure

Thanks UI1, we resell Razberi hardware with built-in POE and bundled with Orchid VMS. https://www.razberi.net/products-solutions/edge-appliances/serverswitchiq/

You can email me direct at chris.uiterwyk@ipconfigure.com

Best,

Chris

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Ernest Hartoonians

In reply to Ernest Hartoonians

Hi, I'm with VectorUSA as Eagle Eye partner.

We've tested many ways on both cloud managed IP Cameras or bridges. You can do either way with Eagle Eye.

more cost effective way is to use a low cost Hanwha or Vivotek IP camera that only gives you H.264 and Jpeg stream with no analytics, then use the CMVR which is cloud managed bridge with on-premise recording. you can have hybrid as well for instance 5 days on-prem then to the cloud for required retention period.

In case of internet connectivity failure, it will record locally and you can also have the videos on a monitor onsite.

In case of cloud recording only, all the bridges have local HDD or SSD to buffer the video for up to 2 days. Its useful for both low BW connectivity and also internet connection failure.

You can also schedule the upload time for after hours so would save BW in busy hours on both scenarios.

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Undisclosed Integrator #1

•Dec 23, 2018

Ernest,

If you go with the Eagle Eye "CMVR which is cloud managed bridge with on-premise recording" do you still have to pay per camera per month since there is nothing stored in the cloud, or what is their pricing model for this local storage option?

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Ernest Hartoonians

•Dec 23, 2018

Hi,

There is $5.00 MSRP monthly cost per camera if you only manage it through cloud. Another advantage is that the CMVR or a simple bridge has HDMI and/or DVI out so in case of internet failure, the center can view the cameras locally.

The cost for cloud recording starts from $7.00 on VGA to $25.00 for 4K resolution for 7 days retention. It can be stored up to 5 years in cloud with 4K resolution. There are verity of plans fit for specific budget per camera.

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Ayaz Mohammed

There are multiple ways to do this based on how you want to grow your business.

Easiest is to use the NVRs from Dahua/Hikvision,Hanwa which have already a cloud service to connect.

If you want more control then some of the options listed by others like NX is also possible.

As an integrator to retain full control, I would deploy one of the standard VMS (Genetec, Milestone etc.) which have a federation feature. Run them fully on the site as required with prebuilt appliances, NVR, Server+SAN etc. Then host a virtual machine on the cloud like AWS or Azure which is running the federation server in the case of Genetec or Milestone Interconnect and manage the remote sites. This gives full control on user authentication, isolation, event push alerts etc and other functionality available based on the VMS chosen.

This does require a bit of networking, port forwarding and DDNS but after a couple of deployments its mostly copy/paste. What you get though is a reliable solution and a good business model as hosting a VM per customer on the cloud costs peanuts since all data and video is on the site itself.

There are few other companies like VideoNext who are also doing VSaaS if you want to look at other models too.

Hope this helps.

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Undisclosed Integrator #1

In reply to Ayaz Mohammed

Ayaz,

Yes, this does help thanks.

I think the cheapest way to do this is the "NVRs from Dahua/Hikvision/Hanwa which have already a cloud service to connect." Of these, which has the best free cloud service built into their NVR?

We tried a version of LTS Security which is a Hikvision OEM, and overall the experience was horrible with their PT Cloud application. Yes, it did work without any port forwarding required. But it was painful for the customer to setup and login on their phone. You even had to have an encryption password or something per camera. Then there were like two separate applications which both worked, but had slightly different functionality.

Thanks to this post we have looked at NX, and overall it seems like a good option. It cost around $90 onetime per camera which isn't horrible, but would make it hard to complete with these lower cost options from Dahua/Hikvision/Hanwa.

I will look into your recommendation for Genetec/Milestone with Federation. However, someone mentioned to me the advantage of NX over Genetec/Milestone was NX is just a onetime cost where Genetec/Milestone has yearly maintenance fees. Is that accurate? How much does Genetec/Milestone cost?

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Ayaz Mohammed

I tried the Hikvision and Dahua service which was quite clunky at best. But you know what they say, pay peanuts get monkeys ;)

NX seems to be doing well. It's growing in our region too. Yes their licensing model is 1 time purchase with lifetime updates. Unfortunately none of the Tier1 offer that as they need yearly support renewals. Its not that the system would stop working, you just won't get the latest updates. This is usually 14-18% of the license cost.

License itself varies based on the version and functionality chosen so best is to contact them directly and see where you get.

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Undisclosed Integrator #1

In reply to Ayaz Mohammed

Thanks I will contact them. But in general, is it accurate to say the a onetime NX license will be less than a Genetec/Milestone with say 5 years of support renewals?

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Sean Patton