Cheap Cameras... Now I Kind Of See The Differences... Samsung Vs. Hikvision

With the Hikvision 8MP (cheapo series, 3.0) great resolution, but I can't make a setting DEDICATED to say, my SD-Cards recording. Whereas, in the Samsung, I can make as many profiles as I want -- and I believe (though yes, SD Cards, as some of you mentioned in another thread are an 'after thought' of the feature list) can have specific resolutions/qualities/names created for specific roles.

And 'yes', I see how turning on certain features disables "smart features' in the series 3.0 hikvision.

Are there other examples of the differences between the best cameras (axis, avigilon, etc) that make their cameras with identical specs, lets say, or even lower -- justify their massively increased prices? How do I learn to 'care' about this without the ability to justify "affording one"...?

Is it their VMS? Reliability? Compatibility? Quality? Please help me understand the counterintuitive.

I'm aware of Hikvision's security problems...but given that they OEM for companies who's Firmware/Software still use their hardware yet do not suffer exile from the U.S. Army, etc., the issue isn't the hardware... it's the Chinese assumption that americans would never figure anything out about networking security. lol. And I'm probably not going to be high on their list of companies to violate. :)

Reactions:

Jon Dillabaugh

Pro Focus LLC

We have installed a wide variety of cameras in the past. Everything from Axis, Avigilon, Dahua, Hikvision, Hanwha (Samsung), Digital Watchdog, Vivotek, Acti, etc...

There is no given "best" brand. It is very subjective. That said, I tend to prefer the Hikvision brand over many others. There are exceptions, but over all, they tend to be easy to install, simple to configure, and quality is good enough for us.

The exceptions are their bullets have very limited options for mounting and aiming. We are hoping to see them change this issue. For example, Avigilon bullets are much easier to install and aim. However, I don't find the Avigilon UI to be as simple as the Hikvision UI. This could be due to the quantity of Hikvision cameras I have installed vs Avigilon, with the Hikvision being more familiar.

Another issue we have had with Hikvision is that their accessories sometimes could be designed a little better. Some of their seals are difficult to work with. They tend to fall out. Other accessories make it difficult to assemble, especially up on a ladder. These aren't going to affect most end users, but as an installer, they do make a difference.

What Hikvision does have that I feel some other brands are missing is a very wide catalog of accessories. If Hikvision doesn't have the exact item you need, you are dealing with a rare circumstance. It has happened a few times to us, but it is rare.

If you wanted a go to brand that isn't Chinese based, my short list would be (in order)

Axis - Great products, just a little more expensive on average, works with all VMS

Avigilon - Great products, but best if used with Avigilon ACC VMS

Hanwha (Samsung) - Less choices and options, but very good products

Reactions:

(3)

(4)

Undisclosed #5

In reply to Jon Dillabaugh

I'd disagree with less choices on Hanwha. I don't see an array of fixed lens cameras in each series of the Axis or Avigilon line.

Reactions:

(2)

Undisclosed #5

In reply to Undisclosed #5

Or analog, or recorders, or fisheyes.

Reactions:

(2)

Tim Pickles

In reply to Jon Dillabaugh

Direct Security

Hi John, have you tried the "2685" series of bullet cameras that has a single screw adjustment for full bracket articulation and comes with the new larger back box? Agreed, the multiple screws of some of the other models was not great. A better arrangement for the Cat5 connection as well, without the pesky fly lead. The 2785 uses the same cable arrangement that is so much better and quicket than other models. We've just installed around 30 of the 2685's (4k) and install time has more than halved, with fantastic images.

What HIK also do really well is the 4k 8 channel IP decoder to run the video wall - works really well and hooks up to the touch screen keypad really well. These are the "bits" that are missing on other manufacturers line-ups that make the difference for us. Hik even do an HDMI to IP converter - sounds odd, but in control rooms it can be handy to have a recording of what the operator is putting onto the spot monitor as a true record of what they were actually watching/controlling - superb for audit purposes.

Agree with you your other manufacturer notes also - it's horses for courses and whatever suits the project best.

Reactions:

(1)

Undisclosed Integrator #6

In reply to Jon Dillabaugh

Axis - Great products, just a little lot more expensive on average, works with all VMS

FIFY. ;)

Otherwise I agree with everything you said.

Reactions:

(1)

Undisclosed Integrator #6

•Feb 11, 2018

In reply to Undisclosed Integrator #6

I'm curious to hear from Mr. Disagree on where I can get a 4K Axis dome or bullet for $350 CAD?

Reactions:

(1)

Undisclosed Manufacturer #3

The SD card is a great example of a feature that isn't used by many, but the way that it is implemented is vastly different than some others. One brand I used to work with (for) only allowed the second stream to record to SD card, so you could not record full resolution. They came up with a fix, but then you couldn't stream to a client or NVR/VMS at full resolution.

Another example I like to give is things like defog or tamper detection or dark contract enhancement. Many manufacturers have these features, but when you enable 1, other settings are disabled - mutually exclusive. So you have to choose - is it a foggy day or a dark evening.

Other cameras are not limited on the DSP side and allow any/all combinations of these features.

It is hard to know this just by looking at a spec sheet. You would have to have experience with the product....

Reactions:

(3)

Sean Nelson

Nelly's Security

but I can't make a setting DEDICATED to say, my SD-Cards recording.

As far as profiles go, you can simply export your settings within the maintenance section of the Hikvision. Its basically the same thing as a profile, but saved on your computer. I assume that samsung is simply saving their "profiles" on their flash memory.

Reactions:

Undisclosed Manufacturer #3

No, profile here refers to what most manufacturers call a stream. Some cameras, such as Panasonic cameras can have 4 unique streams. Hanwha cameras can have up to 10 unique profiles. Some brands can only have a main and sub stream.

The issue here is that some cameras can only use the sub stream for SD card recording, or do not have full options available to configure/tweak how/what is recorded to the SD card - bit rate, bit rate mode, frame rate, resolution, aspect ratio, GOV length, audio, etc....

Reactions:

(1)

Sean Nelson

Nelly's Security

You are saying the Hanwha cameras have 10 different streams that can all be used simultaneously?

For example,
you can send 8MP to an NVR
Send 5MP to another NVR
Send 6MP to a VMS
Send 4MP to the SD card
etc.
etc.

All at the same time?

Reactions:

Undisclosed Manufacturer #3

I didn't say they can all be used simultaneously. I said that you can configure 10 unique streams (profiles).

Depending on the model (which series/line), you can have many concurrent connections. If you exceed what the camera can do, frame rates may drop.

The advantage here is that the configuration for SD card recording doesn't need to impact VMS or NVR or web monitoring, app, live streaming, etc.

If you had a case where different things were happening on event or triggers, etc...

Also, many VMS create multiple profiles. This way they can have their own and you still have other profiles available for your own/other uses.

Reactions:

Sean Nelson

Nelly's Security

So can you use them simultaneously or not? If you cant use them simultaneously, I guess I dont see the difference between a profiled setting that is saved on the "camera". And several exported settings that you save on your computer.

Reactions:

Undisclosed Manufacturer #3

Settings saved to a PC requires that I take an action to upload configuration, not screw other things up, etc. A configuration file usually contains all camera programming, so updating a profile would wipe out any other recent changes.

Also, some users may have a camera doing different things based on time of day: User viewing live video during the day, analytics event display at night, time lapse video creation during the day, etc...

Depending on the frame rate, resolution, number of concurrent users, and camera series, you CAN have the camera doing many things at once.

You might have profiles for certain types of activities, etc. that are inactive, but when you need them, they are ready to go, on the camera.

For example, I did some live streaming of events at a school. The camera had a profile configured for that which had audio enabled, 30fps, etc.

I also had the camera recording to an SD card for recording purposes. The camera may have had profiles for a VMS or NVR to record. However for that event, it was not recording to VMS. But I didn't need to reload configuration, or delete the settings of the VMS/NVR. I just live streamed the LiveStream profile that I had on the camera. The SDRec profile I created was for recording. After the event, I pulled the SD card, and that profile was sitting there unused, but ready to go.

Think back to the Palm Pilot days. I could have any app I wanted on my Palm. But I had to connect a cable and sync. Yes it has the capability, but takes an action to accomplish it, and may remove other things to make room for it. Compared to smartphones where I can load as many apps as I want. I may not be using the all the time or all at once, but I can switch between them. If I try to run every app at the same time, my performance on the device will degrade.

Reactions:

(1)

Sean Nelson

Nelly's Security

Got it. Makes sense now. pretty cool

Reactions:

Undisclosed Manufacturer #7

•Feb 11, 2018

They have excellent cameras and the multi-profile is cool. But this reminds me of Panasonic NVR installation manuals in years past (and maybe still today) 82 pages (exaggeration, but not too much) devoted to alarm configuration which nobody ever programmed or used. I can’t imagine more than 1 in a 1000 users of video technology are going to enter a camera configuration page for each camera and change the profile to suit the needs of the moment. Most don’t even know what their needs are nor how the system is even configured let alone changing camera configurations on the fly. Schedules can help but schedules are generally a moving target and users are unlikely to alter schedules on the fly either.

Reactions:

(1)

Undisclosed Distributor #4