Anyone Care To Share A Well-Written CCTV And NVR Spec?

Teledyne FLIR

Didn't mean to crush your thread, bro...

If you could share it, I think there are plenty of other people here who can help - that have been in your position before.

But without seeing what you are up against, I think it is difficult to offer a generic spec - well-written or not. :)

Reactions:

Tom McVey

IPVMU Certified

No problem. I will post a link to the specs and the layout I was provided with. The specs I was provided with are from a manufacturer and were provided to the engineer to lock my company out of it. The engineer asked me to provide a spec that would allow us to bid it. I don't experience with specs and I butchered it up a bit. Honestly the specs may be good. Its just my inexperience that rendered them useless.

Just to be fair. I am wanting to quote Milestone but hope to write a spec that allows competition.

Reactions:

Undisclosed Integrator #1

I haven't look at your spec but if you can get the engineer or customer to add "or approved equal" next the VMS/Server/Cameras you will be fine as long as they approve what you are doing.

Reactions:

Tom McVey

In reply to Undisclosed Integrator #1

IPVMU Certified

I agree with that entirely. The engineer has reached out for a better spec and I would like to be the guy that can get him one. I have no idea of their workload but I do know that some of the specs I see are outdated. I am trying to develop a relationship by actually writing the spec, not deliver a canned manufacturers spec. I have tried to research how to actually write a good spec and have studied the guide by IPVM, however I seem to learn by dissecting or taking apart a well written example and then using that to build what I want.

I hope that makes sense.

Tom

Reactions:

Terrence Harless

This Engineer is what gives Security Consultants a bad name. Probably should have hired a Security Consultant to create the specs and provide bid documents.

Reactions:

Tom McVey

IPVMU Certified

I've uploaded the specs and drawing to my onedrive. I am providing a link. I haven't changed the camera placement yet but I can see changes that I would make.

drawing and specs

Reactions:

(1)

Undisclosed Integrator #2

WOW! that's one biased spec... Good luck getting around that.

Reactions:

Tom McVey

In reply to Undisclosed Integrator #2

IPVMU Certified

I've gotten the engineer to allow me to rewrite the entire spec if needed. I just don't have a well written spec to use as my basis of design.

Reactions:

Undisclosed #3

The spec isn't really that bad - if you are an Avigilon dealer...

I would just use their template (which they are at least familiar with) - update some of the tech requested and just substitute more 'open' choices for the Avigilon-specific stuff baked in to this spec.

For instance, this...

"1. The NVMS shall support High Definition Stream Management (HDSM)™ architecture which includes:
a. Support for industry standard compression formats including but not limited to:
1) JPEG2000
2) MJPEG
3) MPEG-4
4) H.264"

...is a terrible section.

Not only are Avigilon-specific things mentioned here, there is no mention of 'modern day' codecs (H.264+, H.265, H.265+) - so it's old.

Reactions:

(2)

(1)

Undisclosed Manufacturer #8

•Feb 01, 2019

The drawing with the camera looks alright, but I would suggest drawing arrows to indicate the field of view, coming from the camera. This way the client would know exactly what they can expect to have captured, and if needed wither have cameras moved or added before the work is finished.

As for the specs, it would be possible to publish the make/model of items in a spreadsheet, with basic information on items (storage, location, features, etc) then if the customer requires more information you could supply it upon request; unless you feel they need every part spelt out.

Reactions:

Tom McVey

IPVMU Certified

I agree with the old statement. Not sure if some of the mentioned compatibility requirements can be met with the latest software from anyone. That is why I want to create a whole new spec. If I can write it in such a way to keep it open then I am sure my spec will be used on more projects allowing me the ability to quote jobs I have been kept out of.

Reactions:

Tom McVey

IPVMU Certified

Just noticed the riser provided. 16 ports build in on the riser yet there are 18 cameras on the layout. This is why I want to provide the best spec possible.

Reactions:

Undisclosed Manufacturer #6

That particular NVR is supplied with an integrated switch. Just add another switch to accommodate the additional cameras?

Reactions:

Undisclosed #4

I've gone back and forth on whether to post this, but here we are...

What you are basically asking is to receive the work product of someone else -- something that an individual or company was either paid to develop, something that someone paid to have developed by someone else, or something that someone put their time into developing -- for free. I would suggest this is akin to asking an artist to do some work for "exposure" or something like that.

It's not entirely surprising that you haven't found many good specs out there, because I would imagine that people do a fairly good job of protecting them from getting out too far. Not to say you won't find many out there, but just that the really good ones aren't likely to be readily available.

Not trying to rain on your parade and I can't say I blame you for asking, but just adding my reaction to your post to the mix. If you want a professionally-developed specification, I would suggest finding a consultant to assist you in that process. There are a number of great resources on here that could likely assist.

Reactions:

(3)

(4)

Tom McVey

In reply to Undisclosed #4

IPVMU Certified

I can see why you would say that and I tend to agree with what you said. I didn't originally post the specs and such because I did not want someone to do the actual work that I am trying to do. I have reached out on IPVM because the general feeling from this website is the help we give to each other that we wouldn't do elsewhere. As I understand your point and agree with it to some extent. My reluctance to reach out at all has been caused by the same thought process. I have been faced with this exact problem before and have struggled to complete it. I cannot find a guide other than what I have found here to try and write specs and would gladly welcome a push in the right direction. I have reached out to my suppliers and get the same factory spec from them that I am trying to get away from. And by asking this question I have gotten farther than I would have alone. I don't feel you have rained on my parade, you have just opened up about how I am sure many of us feel. As it is maybe this would be a good project for me to document and share with everyone else here. A kind of documenting a hands on journey into writing a spec for a project. I am not saying I will or even could do this but I have to say it is beginning to intrigue me a bit more. And to think this thought began with your actual comment would actually imply you helped more than you know.

Thanks,

Tom

Reactions:

(1)

Undisclosed #3

this is why I suggested that you avail yourself of the template that the engineer has already provided - and just edit/update accordingly.

I think it is a decent, if over-wordy general spec (minus all the Avigilon stuff of course).... a great place to start for a novice/journeyman spec-designer like yourself.

and we avoid the free art conversation all together and everyone lives happily ever after.

1. The engineer is at least familiar with the template he provided you - so you don't have to 'invent' anything.

2. A good question here on IPVM might be, "What would you remove/replace from this spec if you wanted to provide another VMS than aint Avigilon?"

3. If you can gather that kind of information, then you can edit/update and be able to show the engineer how (and why) you updated his spec for him in the way that you did.

Reactions:

Tom McVey

In reply to Undisclosed #3

IPVMU Certified

Thanks. I am going to start down that particular path. I find it both funny and educational to think I don't even know how to ask the question for what I want. That is a very good suggestion and anyone following this is free to look at the spec and reply to that.

Thanks,

Tom

Reactions:

(1)

Undisclosed #3

well, come on IPVM community.... help a brother out.

how does this provided spec suck?

what would you change/edit in this bad spec?

Reactions:

Undisclosed #4

Tom -

I am glad you didn't take my comment negatively, which is definitely not how I intended it.

Cheers!

Reactions:

(1)

Tom McVey

In reply to Undisclosed #4

IPVMU Certified

I find if you take the time to understand what someone says then what some may feel is a negative comment is actually good advice and I try to learn from it. And you do have very valid points and suggestions.

Tom

Reactions:

(1)

Undisclosed #9

•Feb 01, 2019

In reply to Undisclosed #4

Thank you. Agree on all points.

Reactions:

Undisclosed #5

IPVMU Certified

First thing I would do is point out to the customer that this is a generic A & E lock-in, with virtually no project specific modifications.

Here’s 10 more just like it.

Do you have a vendor of choice?

No doubt they have a similar document available.

Reactions:

(2)

Tom McVey

IPVMU Certified

Yes I do have a particular vendor I would like to use, but I'd like my spec to be a little more open. Every spec from my vendors seem to do the same, lock everyone out.

Reactions:

(1)

Undisclosed #9

•Feb 01, 2019

That’s their objective. And you can strategically use it if you’re in an open equipment bid situation but the client has chosen specifically what they want. But more typically you would specify the basis of design and allow vendors to propose an approved equivalent - approved by you of course.

Reactions:

Michael Silva

Silva Consultants

Writing a good descriptive specification (not based on a specific manufacturer) for a video management system is a major undertaking. A spec of this type can run 30 pages or more and would typically cost $6,000-$9,000 if a qualified consultant were to write it.

This is the reason so many A/Es and owners simply use a manufacturer's spec as written and then add the words "or equal" to the end of it. This approach can work for simple products, but trying to use it to specify software based products usually ends in disaster. Most manufacturers use entirely different design approaches and trying to match the feature set of one manufacturer's product using their terminology with the feature set of another manufacturer can be difficult or impossible.

The only real solution is to write a product neutral spec starting from scratch. You need to describe each feature and function desired using generic terms, and then define the terms that you used in each description. I have written this type of spec numerous times over the years, and I can tell you that it is a lot of work. I have also found that spec writing is an art in itself, and that just because someone possesses great technical knowledge doesn't mean that they can write a decent spec.

Reactions:

(3)

(4)

Undisclosed #3

can I specifically agree with every word you posted and still ask what you think the OP should do in this specific situation?

i.e. would you suggest he spend the $6-9K?

Reactions:

Michael Silva

In reply to Undisclosed #3

Silva Consultants

If I am reading the thread correctly, the OP was asked to review and comment on a spec that was prepared for an owner by an engineer. If anyone pays for a new spec to be written, it should be the owner or owner's engineer, not the OP.

However, the job appears to relatively small, and this may be one of those cases where the cost of writing a decent spec is disproportionate to the size of the job. If I was in the OP's shoes, I would tell the owner/engineer that this is a "factory spec" written around a specific manufacturer's product, explain the shortcomings of this approach, and give them a ballpark cost for writing a new spec.

If the owner/engineer doesn't want to spend the money for a better spec, I would either 1) bid the project using the specified product; or 2) ask if you can submit a bid using a different but comparable product. Along with this bid you would include a narrative describing how the proposed product meets the intent (but not necessarily the language) of each part of the original spec.

You would go through the spec paragraph by paragraph and show how your product provides features similar or better than the ones contained in the original spec.

For example, the original spec may contain a line that says "The NVMS shall support High Definition Stream Management (HDSM)™ architecture....". In the narrative the bidder might explain: "The XYZ video management system that I am proposing uses the Clippy algorithm that greatly reduces bandwidth requirements while streaming high-quality video and provides equivalent functionality to HDSM...)

Reactions:

(3)

(1)

Undisclosed Integrator #7

I agree with Michael 100% EXCEPT I wouldn’t state the word “equivalent” in any response because “all things being equal....they never are”! Similar would be better IMHO

Reactions:

(1)

Terrence Harless

In reply to Undisclosed Integrator #7

Approved Equal would be better, that way you have to approve the product that replaces the spec'd product. Equal or Similar is very subjective and leaves the Spec writer out of the equation.

Reactions:

Tom McVey

IPVMU Certified

Very informative. The spec was not written by the engineer. It was provided by either the manufacturer or one of my competitors. The opportunity I have is to change it and make sure I am able to bid before the spec is released.

How does one learn the art of spec writing. Is there a class, or a book? Your answer is well written and I appreciate it

Thanks,

Tom

Reactions:

Michael Silva

Silva Consultants

There is an association called the Construction Specifications Institute (CSI) that offers certifications for specification writers. The CSI publishes books and offers classes on various aspects of specification writing. There are also local CSI chapters in most major cities that sometimes hold classes and seminars as well. I have given presentations at local CSI chapters on security topics in the past.

There is a book called "Construction Specifications Writing: Principles and Procedures, 6th edition". Another book is the "Construction Specifications Practice Guide". Both of these are available on Amazon and elsewhere.

The key to good spec writing is practice, practice, practice. When you first start out, you write what you think are perfect specs, only to have them shot down by contractors who point out every omission and ambiguity in your document when they go to bid the project. Specs definitely read differently when you are in a position of having to defend and enforce them. Things that you think should be very obvious are not and it is amazing how different people can interpret the same words so differently.

After you have been humbled by this a few dozen times, you start to look at spec writing from a new perspective and begin to produce better quality documents. It can take several years to get to this point. I've been doing this for 30+ years and am still learning something new on every project.

Reactions:

(2)

(4)

Undisclosed #4

Thank you for your posts, Michael. You said what I was trying to say above, but not surprisingly, you said it in a much more eloquent manner.

Reactions:

Tom McVey

IPVMU Certified

In reply to Chris Hammond

I have added both of those books to my list. Also I found a book that you write and also added it. Thanks for the direction. Will check out CSI as well. Although there isn't even a charter in my state.

Reactions:

Chris Hammond

•Jan 30, 2019

Tom,

Google 282300 Video Surveillance Specification or 28 23 00 CCTV. Some combination of those searches will result in some links to institutions (e.g. Universities) that publicly publish their specifications. Avoid the manufacturer written ones (you'll find lots of Honeywell for example). I am not saying these are well written but at least they offer some other examples that you can carve up and get you started. 282300 is the CSI Master Specification section pertaining to video.

Another option is to contact Milestone. They have their equivalent to the Avigilon specification. Not the right thing for your customer but a tool for you to use if you choose.

Like Mr. Silva mentioned, this is not a simple task. I write specifications too and I am not sure I have done one yet that all would consider well written! Unfortunately, I can't share even bad examples due to client confidentiality.

One piece of advice, the client has needs for the system to do something for them. In other words, how are they going to use the system and why? Make sure these FUNCTIONAL performance requirements are captured in the specification. You can list all kinds of engineering specifications but if it does not get installed and configured to achieve the use case, it won't matter to the customer. Most manufacturer A&E specifications can't address this. The best they can do is list a bunch of features that read like a user manual.

Good luck!

Reactions:

(3)

(2)

Tom McVey

•Jan 31, 2019

IPVMU Certified

Thanks. When I am looking over drawings and layouts I often save the ones I think were well done. I try to take what I like and use it in my drawings as well. I really haven't done that with the specifications I have seen. Maybe saved one or two for different reasons but now I am thinking that may help guide me down that path.

Reactions:

Erik Fredeen

•Jan 31, 2019

IPVMU Certified

This is a great discussion. As a consulting owners' PM/CM on different construction projects (not just involving CCTV and/or access control) a few opinions:

1. When you dial in a good generic spec, keep a master copy in a safe place since it's easy to keep re-using the last version, which may have been a more specific application, and those beneficial, generic components get lost. It's best to start with your master spec each time and edit using 'Track Changes' and saving that as a revision in a new folder.

2. Unless you specialize in only one size of project, you really need at least two different versions, a more detailed spec for larger projects and a simpler spec for smaller projects. This is especially true for the Div. 00 & 01 specs since a voluminous bid package for a small project may scare away some smaller contractors and limit competition. The flip-side of course is when a small project goes sideways and you wish you had the same tools in the larger spec to enforce (from an owner's perspective). The bottom line is to match strategy to situation.

3. I echo comments above from Mr. Silva about CSI and Mr. Hammond for searching the Internet with the MasterSpec number for publicly advertised specs for inspiration. I frequently find myself wishing I had carved out the time to work on a good spec before the "we need one tomorrow" situation.

Reactions:

(1)

Tom McVey

•Jan 31, 2019

IPVMU Certified

In reply to Erik Fredeen

Every time I get a "we need a spec now" I think of how useful it would have been to take some down time and start one. There just isn't enough downtime in the day. With the wealth of information and suggestions I have gotten at this point I am going to make this a goal. If and when I come up with one I would like to share it so I can see where it needs improved.

Thanks,

Tom

Reactions:

(1)

Tom McVey

•Feb 07, 2019

IPVMU Certified

I want to thank everyone for the information, ideas, and suggestions. As I attempt to write a good spec I would like to share it for suggestions and ideas. Down time is scarce at the moment but I will be posting updates.

Thanks,

Tom

Reactions:

Undisclosed Integrator #10

Tom

Good Morning - or it is here in the UK. To echo some of the thoughts above, I have written many many responses to specifications as part of bid process, usually to clarify what cant be achieved or complied with, but offering the correct solution all the same.

Engineering specs are only half the story, they usually only list info from data sheets in a reader friendly way but without referring to the whole system / end user actual experience.

Some paid for specs are clearly cut and paste from previous specs - even in the previous 12 months I have seen system for IP cameras requiring the signal to be 1v PtP at the recorder and all cameras and recorders to be connected to the same electrical phase. I still see references to VCR tapes on occasion !!!!. These are projects worth 250K upwards with "proper" electrical consultants writing or at least publishing them. I think that is the issue = Electrical consultants whilst very clever are NOT security consultants.

Rant over and back to the point - Here in the UK there is a requirement / guidance that the end client should produce to definitively state what they want to achieve - it also gives a good view on what the spec should look like - link below

https://www.globalmsc.net/wp-content/uploads/2016/01/operational-requirements.pdf

Its a couple of years out of date, but the principles are still sound. I reccomend you have a read, even though its a UK document it transfers to any market.

Reactions:

(1)

Undisclosed #9

In reply to Undisclosed Integrator #10

Great background document, but much of it is not appropriate to be included in a spec. A spec defines a scope of work, it is not to provide educational background.

Reactions:

Tom McVey

•Feb 18, 2019

IPVMU Certified

In reply to Undisclosed Integrator #10

Thanks for the link. I would have responded earlier but I took a few days off.

Thanks,

Tom

Reactions:

Undisclosed Integrator #10

Hi - I agree, it wasnt the intention to suggest the OR contents be used in the spec, but more to indicate the level of detail the spec author should be getting from the client so the spec really reflects the expectations and not just the spec of the cameras - how many times have we had " Well I can't see as far / as clearly as I thought I would " and similar comments at handover, even though you installed the camera that was specified.

Reactions:

Undisclosed Integrator #11