Black Cameras: Is There Much Demand?

Avatar
Ethan Ace
Oct 25, 2016

Hikvision has had the banner below on their front page news for a month or so now, and it's made me wonder: Are black cameras something that is really missing from their line? Is there a lot of demand for them?

It seems like a few years ago there was more of a movement toward being able to paint cameras or customize them to match finishes, but then no one really talked about it ever again, so I found it curious when this became front page coming soon news.

Vote:

Avatar
Ethan Ace
Oct 25, 2016

No "black cameras matter" / "all cameras matter" jokes are allowed. Let's keep this on topic.

(4)
(9)
DU
Dylan Upp
Oct 26, 2016
IPVMU Certified

Most every place I have seen them they look terrible. That is not to say they don't have a purpose. I have seen many instances where a darker camera could benefit the customer. Given there is no price difference, I could see them being used if customers know they have the option.

(1)
Avatar
Brian Rhodes
Oct 26, 2016
IPVMU Certified

There must be some stage on the path of commodity life-cycle where minor differentiation is pronounced.

Anecdote: I bought tires recently, and one of the selling points of one of the options was 'White Lettering on Both Sides of the Tire!' while competitive offerings offer one side white and one side black.

This tire manufacturer was so limited in differentiating their product from competitors on tire wear, tread style, running noise, traction and so on that they tried to entice me on a cosmetic feature (that would go unseen anyway). Who looks at the inside of tires anyway?!?!

Having 'sleek black' cameras reminds me of a marketing stunt, like a new iPhone with gloss black housing or tires whitewalled on both sides. We're at that stage of product design where this is featured as a differentiator because there's nothing else.

U
Undisclosed #1
Oct 26, 2016
IPVMU Certified

"White Lettering on Both Sides of the Tire!'

This is actually quite popular with the Harley Davidson crowd.

(1)
UM
Undisclosed Manufacturer #7
Oct 31, 2016

Not 100% sure, but if it was white lettering on only one side I think that means when you do a tire rotation you might end up with black lettering instead of white? I guess it would depend if the tire tread is designed to go both directions or just one.

U
Undisclosed #1
Oct 31, 2016
IPVMU Certified

Not 100% sure, but if it was white lettering on only one side I think that means when you do a tire rotation you might end up with black lettering instead of white?

Assuming you leave the tire mounted to the wheel during rotation, it will always be white showing. Directional tires can only be rotated front to back on the same side, unless they are remounted.

(1)
U
Undisclosed #1
Oct 26, 2016
IPVMU Certified

(1)
UM
Undisclosed Manufacturer #2
Oct 26, 2016

I have noticed that they are very popular in movie theatres and restaurants that have black ceilings and walls

(3)
U
Undisclosed #3
Oct 26, 2016

We have had semi regular enquiries for black cameras. Like manufacturer 2 says above they are mostly for places with black ceilings. Last one we had was for a casino.

(1)
Avatar
Paul Grefenstette
Oct 26, 2016

I remember Pelco's booth maybe 2 years ago showcasing how you can customize your spectra ptz to any color of the rainbow - looked like a sherman williams booth. My office is next to a car dealership that has awful analog box housings that they spray painted red for what reason I dont know but maybe there's a target market for colored cameras other than black ;)

I think most of us look at a black camera and say do I really want to install something outside that increases the chance of the camera overheating and dying a short life.

Avatar
Ross Vander Klok
Oct 26, 2016
IPVMU Certified

We are pretty much required to paint any camera to match the architects "vision" for "his" space. So for us a lighter color is easier to cover up. I am sure if the vision was for an all black ceiling/wall the camera would be wrong shade of black anyway....

(1)
(1)
UM
Undisclosed Manufacturer #4
Oct 26, 2016

What about black cameras located in direct sunlight? Always been told that it produces excessive internal heat. One manufacturer told me that it violates the camera's warranty.

(2)
U
Undisclosed #1
Oct 26, 2016
IPVMU Certified

One manufacturer told me that it violates the camera's warranty.

"Once you go black, it won't go back."

(1)
(3)
Avatar
Ross Vander Klok
Oct 26, 2016
IPVMU Certified

That makes perfect sense actually. Black housing would heat it up quickly and stay heated longer. So outside in the sun would be a bad idea.

(2)
U
Undisclosed #1
Oct 26, 2016
IPVMU Certified

So outside in the sun would be a bad idea.

So then silver is even better than white?

Gen 1 Silver bullet, circa 2005

UI
Undisclosed Integrator #5
Oct 26, 2016

We are required to paint cameras for warehouse installations.

First reason is client. they suspect that with less visible cameras employees are not bothered by watchfull eyes.

Second.. dust.

U
Undisclosed #1
Oct 26, 2016
IPVMU Certified

I think its a mistake to push black cameras. As a special order, ok. As a stocking item, maybe not.

Any distributor is limited by space and capital. Black and white cameras split the space.

Leading to the inevitable,

"I only have seven of the eight on hand right now... that is unless you don't mind black?"

"Ok, give me black, I'll upsell them."

"You're lucky, this was the last black one in stock."

(1)
Avatar
Sean Nelson
Oct 27, 2016
Nelly's Security

I agree, this is why we cant do it. Maybe for the more popular models it makes sense.

UI
Undisclosed Integrator #6
Oct 26, 2016

Only time I use them is in situations where the aesthetics of a black camera match the environment. This is very rare. Usually we just end up painting them. The concern is that painting something darker outdoors will just increase the heat on hot summer days.

(1)
Avatar
Ari Erenthal
Oct 26, 2016
Chesapeake & Midlantic
UM
Undisclosed Manufacturer #2
Oct 26, 2016

Something is in the air...I've had multiple calls on if my product line(S) have black cameras, today!

For you "painters" out there, does that not void the warranty?

(1)
KL
Keefe Lovgren
Oct 27, 2016
IPVMU Certified

here is information from avigilon website regarding painting cameras... i would think most manufacturers would take a similar stance...

It’s fully within the responsibility of the partner to figure out the painting process that will not damage the camera. Avigilon will honor cameras warranty terms and conditions unless damage is caused by the painting process, directly or indirectly. If a camera is damaged due to a manufacturer defect, then the camera will be replaced it with a replacement camera in our standard Avigilon color.
Avigilon does not recommend any particular painting process. Partners must seek for professional painting services in case color customization is required. During painting, attention should be taken in not to cover any vents, lens, or critical components of the camera, only the housing or camera body should be painted. For cameras with configuration ports if these are open during the painting process, cameras will have the opportunity to absorb moisture at that time. Replacing any visible desiccant pack is highly recommended. Painting the cameras a darker color may significant impact its performance in high temperature and direct sunlight. Unfortunately, this is also within the partner’s responsibility to determine the impacts based on how they choose to paint the camera and their ultimate placement.
(1)
(2)
RS
Robert Shih
Oct 27, 2016
Independent

OOOOOH! Why not release bare metal camera housings to distributors and give them anoding kits?!?!?!?! Me want!

(1)
UM
Undisclosed Manufacturer #8
Nov 01, 2016

You'd have to prep the housing which really would take a massive effort and some heavy duty polishing equipment. somewhere I have a picture of a pre-painting housing. looks really like scrap metal! The bare metal will rust in about 2days, i think vacuum sealing is not an option!

Avatar
Sean Nelson
Oct 27, 2016
Nelly's Security

i can imagine resi customers would want these on their dark colored houses.

RR
Richard Ramsowr
Oct 27, 2016

I personally like the idea of the color black being used. Such a color is not going to show dirt and or fade as quickly as a white color turning yellow does

(1)
Avatar
Armando Perez
Oct 27, 2016
Hoosier Security and Security Owners Group • IPVMU Certified

We used ot use nothing but black cameras and the industry turned on us. Now its a feature? WTF.

We did recently have a camera wrapped in carbon fiber for a client that had a carbon fiber wall where we wanted the camera to not detract from the aesthetics. turned out very cool.

Thing about black cameras is they look bigger.

(1)
Avatar
Kyle Folger
Oct 28, 2016
IPVMU Certified

We have had to paint cameras black...or brown to match restaurant decor. When nothing in a place is white and you don't want the cameras to stand out, black cameras work well. In most retail, though, the ceiling is white or light colored, so black cameras wouldn't work well. Or if you are Bass Pro, you have all your PTZ cameras painted to match. I couldn't find a good image, but the one near me has them all custom painted.

I've noticed many retailers don't want to see the cameras as it can ruin the design. The Apple store near me hides their cameras well.

(1)
(1)
Avatar
Robert Sprecher
Oct 31, 2016

We have been asked for them, primarily when we have been tasked with creating covert enclosures for law enforcement or security uses. We usually specify Canon black PTZ cameras in such a case.

Avatar
Simon Barnes
Oct 31, 2016

I've been asked for them many times nearly always on residential properties. I never installed them though because all the black ones available were all from pretty poor manufactures. This though will change what i can offer, I never wanted to paint them myself because of the warranty issues.

UM
Undisclosed Manufacturer #8
Nov 01, 2016

You know in fact Black products actually look nicer in marketing, white is a real bitch to make look good, unless you have a dark background which it not always good, at least on printed material.

And we all know how Black is somehow now the color of choice for iPhone7! Yes I know it's not the same thing as a camera.

Maybe trends in fashionable color in cameras might one day be part of the industry.

For retail and many business installations, more emphasis on aesthetics is at least part of the demand, as mentioned earlier in this thread.

Next time you order a camera check what color(s) are available. Ask what's the Pantone number, or REL number (REL is a German color coding) 95% of Chinese products do not conform to any such color.

How do they make the next product the same color all the time! Very easy and oo so technical. They keep one sample of the product, and then just mix the paint so it looks the same! (No Shit Sherlock)

(1)
U
Undisclosed #1
Nov 01, 2016
IPVMU Certified

They keep one sample of the product, and then just mix the paint so it looks the same...

I've always wondered why each batch gets a smidgen yellower than the last.

UM
Undisclosed Manufacturer #8
Nov 01, 2016

Addition that's to say they only keep one sample, so even this over time itself will fade.

I know one company said the casing factory keep same sample over several years, and use this as still I expect now used as color guide!

Do you think Apple would accept this! so next-time ask your supplier to give you the Pantone number, if they can't provide find another.

And also ask for the material compound in which the so call metal is made from, as this will also change! keep a eye on weights of products, cheaper compound will save money. As most products at raw manufactured level costs is down to pure weight! even to how thick the paint coat is.

Welcome to China. ;-)

(1)
U
Undisclosed #1
Nov 01, 2016
IPVMU Certified

...ask for the material compound in which the so call metal is made from...

Did they stop using pure Chinesium? Figures.

JH
John Honovich
Nov 01, 2016
IPVM

Hikvision new marketing for the black cameras, using a black swan:

Avatar
Ethan Ace
Nov 01, 2016

But don't most people want their cameras to not "STAND OUT"?

U
Undisclosed #1
Nov 01, 2016
IPVMU Certified

Another Black Swann from Hik:

New discussion

Ask questions and get answers to your physical security questions from IPVM team members and fellow subscribers.

Newest discussions