Subscriber Discussion

Charging For VMS And Analytics Installation?

JH
Jay Hobdy
May 18, 2017
IPVMU Certified

We recently installed Milestone with the LPR module at several locations for a client. Admittedly, it has been a learning experience for us, being new to Milestone. While we have installed LPR cameras numerous times, they were always used so that tags could be read in playback, not for any type of recognition .

 

Installing the cameras, getting the angles right so Milestone would read the tags, etc has taken quite some time. 

 

Do you typically charge a flat fee or do you include so many hours and charge for hours after that? On some of these sites all we did was install the LPR camera and Milestone, so its not like there was a bigger project and we could just absorb the cost.

 

Thanks

JH
John Honovich
May 18, 2017
IPVM

Jay, if you did not set the expectation / obligation up front with the customer about charging on a time / hourly basis, I would eat the cost to be fair.

The broader question becomes should the customer or the integrator pay for an integrator learning a technology / product they have not used before. At some level, it is a question of what the market will bear, i.e., include extra cost for learning / trial and error in the quote and increase the risk somewhat of losing the job to someone who already knows the technology and does not need that time / risk.

Finally, as a rough rule, anytime you do a new VMS or video analytics, you need to budget triple or quadruple the time you would estimate on a known project, since it is inevitable there will be issues / learning curve, etc.

(12)
UM
Undisclosed Manufacturer #1
May 18, 2017

Especially with LPR I would, if possible, do as much homework as possible and survey the site properly (take measurements to target, camera height, angles etc) ideally together with an SE from the manufacturer. When doing so you come to site prepared and there will be less 'surprises'. Having to re-visit a site multiple times erodes margins very quickly and it's hard to get that money back of an end user who expects a professional service without paying college fees.

Set the software and hardware up in your workshop and work out how it all blends together.

(6)
JH
Jay Hobdy
May 18, 2017
IPVMU Certified

Sorry I meant in general. We knew it would be a learning curve and we advised the client. We know the cameras we use work very well for a human to read tags with lighting, taillights, tag reflectivity etc. But we knew getting angles right etc for Milestonr would be a learning process.

We only charged for software. No setup.

 

But we have 3 more projects to quote for them that involve Milestone and LPR and would like to charge for the appropriate time now that we have most of the bugs worked out. I think...

 

 

 

DR
Drew Rollins
May 22, 2017

I'd consider this one a sunk cost. Now you know next time how much time it will take and can charge accordingly. I am curious, how long did it take? I recently sold a job with Milestone LPR and only put an extra 3 hours of time to setup. Hope I didn't under estimate...

JH
Jay Hobdy
May 22, 2017
IPVMU Certified

I am not sure if everyone is reading this correctly. We are not looking to back charge the client, just how to quote it in the future.

 

It is hard to tell how long it took because we kept going back, I logged in remotely, etc.

 

The other challenge I had was capturing tags for setup and access to office. Some of these sites were small and office was closed when we arrived. So when my tech was there, I would log in remotely and configure. We had to resort to using a plate on a pole with an orange cone, and use that single reading because we had no cars driving by.

 

It was a logistical mess. Plus our first experience with Milestone.

 

The next project I am quoting 2 hours for Milestone setup, and 2 hours per camera to allow for the LPR setup, any remote log in to adjust camera for night settings etc.

 

 

Avatar
Jon Dillabaugh
May 19, 2017
Pro Focus LLC

There are a few things here that I would recommend. First thing is communicate everything before you close the deal. If it's not something you've done enough times to be a pro, let them know. 

This could be due to the client asking for something custom that has to be tailor made to suit them. If so, let them know that a tailored solution need to be billed time and materials, if that is your preference. 

Secondly, if you don't have the proper training on a given product, it's not the fault of the client, given it is an off the shelf style product. This is where it is on the installer to gain that knowledge on their own, OR charge a flat fee with the client understanding why the fee is a not to exceed quote and that it may take time to dial in the settings. 

Obviously, change/adds are to be extra, but anything inside your defined SOW will be completed on budget. 

(1)
Avatar
ralph azzi
May 22, 2017

What cameras did you use 

JH
Jay Hobdy
May 22, 2017
IPVMU Certified

Uniview and Speco. We will be using the Speco on all future projects simply because it has motorized focus.

(1)
Avatar
Jon Dillabaugh
May 22, 2017
Pro Focus LLC

Most Dahua OEM cameras with varifocus include motorized focus. Most are cheaper too. 

JH
Jay Hobdy
May 22, 2017
IPVMU Certified

We install plenty of Dahua, never seen one that can capture tags at night

Avatar
Jon Dillabaugh
May 23, 2017
Pro Focus LLC

Here is a shot from a Dahua 2MP box camera from 2013. It's easy to do if you know how to configure the settings properly and have enough light.

 

(3)
Avatar
Jon Dillabaugh
May 23, 2017
Pro Focus LLC

Video of Dahua testing

As you can see in the video above, the SUV was driving about 45 MPH. I grabbed a still frame from this video, which can be seen in my post above.

(1)
Avatar
Jon Dillabaugh
May 23, 2017
Pro Focus LLC

Also, I didn't realize this the first time I read your response, but you do know that Speco sells OEM Dahua cameras, right?

(1)
EJ
Eythor Johannesson
Jun 12, 2017

Uniview have cameras with motorized lens..

Avatar
Christopher Freeman
Feb 18, 2018

Great Post John 

How many times you go to put a camera in or a vms or integration and the time just seems to go by , after a while it seems like the project just drags on. and you find the learning curve is really what is going on here. 

Familiarity, even after sitting in on training , and reading the specs you just seem to be online with tech support working out bugs.

Process of install you could not quantify in the bid.

If you try to get compensation , you have to pick it up in extra's 

I dont know too many projects where they feel the learning curve is an extra cost. 

But I do know many company's where they expect compensation to train thier tech's while in the project or completion stages of the project. 

this is where details come into play.

Knowing exactly what was in the initial expectation , Bid, Proposed Details

Some Jobs you just have to chalk it up to experience and learning curve

As stated above , Training, Experience, Reading Reviews, Post  really do your company best. 

Too many times the PM who is in charge and responsible for the project does not really know what is involved or expected for completion. 

 

 

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