Ascendent Group - For Real?

In looking at their website, every product shown looks similar to what you would find perusing Alibaba.

From Manta:

President: Brian Troxel

I agree with John's logic on this. Sure, LinkedIn is not likely to show the precise number of employees, but it's generally a fairly representative indicator.

I think that LinkedIn is a fairly popular tool for professionals these days, and the larger a company is the more likely it is to have a majority of its employees with a LinkedIn profile. This would be, IMO, also correllated with the age of the company... a stealth company in business for 6 months might not have enough employees that have updated their profile to be representative, but a company actively soliciting business that has been around for at least a couple of years, the numbers are probably a good indicator of actual company size.

Matt, see Avigilon's IPO prospectus (page 39). As of June 30, 2011, the company reported just 129 employees. Now, they may very well increased employees by 125% in the last 18 months, given their revenue growth rate. LinkedIn profile numbers can lag in cases of rapid hiring. However, that's an exception that there is no reason to apply to Ascendent. Even if you did, shall we assume that Ascendent has 15 or 20 total employees? Still far below what they would need to pull off an R&D plus manufacturer operation for the breadth and sophistication of their line.

I disagree that no one has had ANYTHING to say about them. The fact no one who has read this thread has anything to say about them positively is a bad sign. Among all the informed insiders at IPVM, no one has had a positive experience?? The only interactions are when their salesmen promote themselves on LinkedIn. What does that say?

Matt, feel free to ignore using LinkedIn profiles as a metric in your analysis. For the rest of us, it is clearly one useful tool in assessing manufacturers.

Not sticking up for the Ascendent Group but its not like this is the first Company to re badge soeone elses products. Take a look at Honeywell, Capture, Digimerge, Amercan Dynmaics, GE Security, ect, ect.

Google map result of Ascendent's listed address:

I've got no issue with someone being a reseller of stuff - as long as they aren't maintaining that they are actual manufacturers of said stuff (which Ascendent strongly infers, though they never 'actually' say it outright).

And my bigger issue is with their repetitive use of social media platforms for broadcast spamming their marketing message.

However, there is always a risk to the end user that one day the company will simply be gone - and then they are left with no avenue for support. Manta shows an estimated annual revenue of $750K. After 10+ years. Who would buy a $50K long range camera from such a firm? When it doesn't work for whatever reason at your customers site, what are you gonna do? Daredevils and trapeze artists would think twice about that level of risk exposure.

Michael, good point, support from the original manufacturer is a key element. While big brand computer component suppliers are likely to sand by their components, surveillance OEMs, as you imply, are not likely to do so.

Dahua is a good example of this, they are rebranded by numerous American companies but the possibility of getting any help from Dahua is extraodinary low. I suspect the same thing with the companies that Ascendent is OEMing from. I doubt you'd be even able to get someone on the tech side who spoke English, forget about them helping repair, replace or support these cameras.

Ascendent reponds. We sent them an email over the weekend. The responded a few moments ago:

"Ascendent Technology Group Inc. custom builds to suit a variety of applications and our assembly and final fabrication take place inCanada. Our housings and mounts are built to meet our specifications in a variety of countries spanning three continents. The lenses we use are usually Japanese, sometimes Fujinon, and often other types depending on who can offer custom optics at lead times that work for us. We have lenses custom built for us to work with our ZLID. For standard applications we use Bosch, Panasonic, or make one based on a Fairchild imager when required to meet special requirements unless another camera is specified

Ascendent’s electro-optics are custom built to suit the application and every build is different so for you to come to the conclusion that it is someone else's product is unfounded. As with all products not every component is made by Ascendent (we do not make thermal or image cores or zoom lenses). If that is a criteria then based on that definition we do not manufacture and I have yet to find a company that does. Ascendent does however have custom components manufactured for us that make up a unique product while offering higher performance than our competitors. Ascendent does optics over 5000mm resolutions, up to 36mp, with multi sensors such as swir, thermal, active IR, visible with range finders on a gyro stabilized platform custom built for specific applications. To insinuate that Ascendent does not build its own electro-optic integrated systems is not only absurd but slanderous.

We custom build units (with certified Made in Canada status) ranging from $5,000 to $500,000 using components that we cannot even export to Korea and China due to ITAR restrictions. Yet you claim they are made there which is not even possible for many of the electro-optic products Ascendent makes. Furthermore, China is about 10 years behind in electro-optics technology.
(As a side note the Korean military and integrators in Korea are asking Ascendent to build them a solution because our lens manufacture in Japan suggested they use Ascendent. Of all the manufacturers they sell to they like Ascendent’s active IR the best and their lens is designed for Ascendent’s ZLID.)
I know you are very competent at reviewing CCTV and IP products but when it comes to defense and electro-optic technologies, judging by your statements I have to assume you have very little experience in this niche market. Otherwise, IPVMP offers a great service and suggest IPVM does reviews products that is within its expertise scope.

To clarify, some of Ascendent’s lower end and cost-effective products like standalone DVRs and eyeball cameras are not made by Ascendent (though final testing on many products and assembly is completed in Canada) Some of these products are manufactured in Korea and China but built to our specs. However, when it comes to the electro-optics and PC based DVRs those are all custom built to suit applications by Ascendent. We offer OEM services on those products and have done OEM for tier one brand names in the US for CCTV equipment.

Ascendent will not tolerate claims that its electro-optics are not manufactured in Canada and that we are simply resellers of products from China and Korea; that is slanderous and unsubstantiated.

Ascendent is not an IPVM member. This would appear to be an attempt to spread misinformation to damage Ascendent’s reputation in order to black mail Ascendent to join and pay the fee for IPVM; either that or an attempt to spread misinformation in order to bolster current IPVM members who may be threatened by Ascendent’s performance and ability to custom build.

Again Ascendent will not tolerate these unsubstantiated slanderous remarks particularly regarding our electro-optics in what is a clear attack on Ascendent’s good name. To continue to make unsubstantiated claims will result in legal action with punitive damages. This would be damaging to IPVM's reputation which I believe was originally built upon providing accurate reviews on products in markets in which IPVM was actually knowledgeable."

I had another round of email exchanges with Ascendent. This time, I was offered an education in what manufacturing is, with the money quote:

"Is Apple not a manufacture? or is the average person unaware that traditional manufacturing where a company built every component simply does not exist today. Manufacturing is about assebly and integration of components that offer an advantage or price benifit to the customer."

I responded with:

Ascendent then shut down, claiming, "No private company releases this detailed information for public viewing we only provide such information to governing bodies or investors on a strictly Ned to know bassis."

Given the refusal to answer such basic and fundamental questions, it's pretty clear to me what we are dealing with here.

Another important distinction as it relates to the Apple example is that Apple hardware is manufactured specifically to their specification, and for their resale exclusively.

Is Ascendant claiming that the products they sell are manufactured to their specifications? What is their response to the examples found of products that externally appear to be identical to their own?

I'd also expect such a "massive" manufacturer of specialty products to have a relatively decent patent portfolio. These would of course be publicly accessible. If Ascendant does not want to disclose about their internal headcount, etc., I would think at the very least they could point you to their list of patents.

Hi John,

do you have information about product for Infrared Laser PTZ cameras? I did not find to many vendors, coincidently I found Ascent, and RuggedCameras (USA). I wonder if you know another trusted-brands, and if they are IP-based and VMS-Compatible like Milestone, so it can be controled from the same VMS-software and not from analog-RS485/232 consoles.

thanks.

Andres