Subscriber Discussion

Alarm Control Panel With >32 Keypads

UM
Undisclosed Manufacturer #1
Mar 13, 2017

I'm wondering if there are any alarm panels that allow for more than 32 wired keypads? I've looked at DSC, Honeywell, and Bosch, and it seems that 32 is the maximum number of keypads.

If it's not possible to do >32 on one panel, is is possible to connect two panels to create one unified system?

Any help would be greatly appreciated. Thanks! 

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Ari Erenthal
Mar 13, 2017

That's a lot of keypads. 

What are you trying to accomplish, exactly?

UM
Undisclosed Manufacturer #1
Mar 13, 2017

Approximately 30 rooms, each needing to be monitored separately, and with its own keypad to disable that room's zone. 

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Ari Erenthal
Mar 14, 2017

Why can't you have a few keypads and just give every user a unique code? Or tie access control readers into the panel and allow users to disarm a single zone based on what credential they present? 

Are users tied to rooms? Do you have multiple users with multiple levels of access? Because you can do that with any alarm panel that has access control integration. 

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UM
Undisclosed Manufacturer #1
Mar 16, 2017

It is for a secure facility, and has been spec'd with access control and alarm keypads on most doors. They want to know when a specific user enters a specific room. So having one keypad for multiple rooms wouldn't work unfortunately. 

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Ari Erenthal
Mar 16, 2017

How about access control readers? Give your users unique credentials, or biometrics, and tie the readers into the alarm

UM
Undisclosed Manufacturer #1
Mar 20, 2017

That's a good idea. However they specifically want separate access control and alarm intrusion systems.

UI
Undisclosed Integrator #2
Mar 13, 2017

 With that many keypads, your other problem to consider may be the number of partitions, depending on what you are doing. 

UM
Undisclosed Manufacturer #1
Mar 13, 2017

They seem to not be requiring too many partitions. So I think we're good there. 

UI
Undisclosed Integrator #2
Mar 13, 2017
If these areas are not partitioned separately each keypad will likely have access to the other zones also on that partition, allowing one room to disable other rooms zones.
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UM
Undisclosed Manufacturer #1
Mar 16, 2017

Thanks for bringing this up, I will have to look into that. 

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Brian Rhodes
Mar 13, 2017
IPVMU Certified

Do they need to be supervised in the system?  Also, do they need to be uniquely identified separately by the system, or can they just be grouped together as one?

UM
Undisclosed Manufacturer #1
Mar 16, 2017

It will be monitored locally during the day, and offsite during the night. They want each room identified separately. 

UM
Undisclosed Manufacturer #1
Mar 16, 2017

It will be monitored locally and offsite depending on the time of day. They want each room to be identified separately. 

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Ethan Ace
Mar 13, 2017

Is this going to be central station monitored? Or do you just need local annunciation/monitoring? What needs to happen when a room goes into alarm?

I did a couple of door monitoring systems 10+ years ago which had a local annunciator and basically just showed a red/green status light. Local keypads were part of it, as well. Not a full blown intrusion system, just a glorified contact closure with LED status, basically. I'm trying to recall what manufacturer we used.

UM
Undisclosed Manufacturer #1
Mar 16, 2017

There will be local and offsite monitoring depending on the time of day. They want a building wide alarm to go off until the incident is checked by the staff. 

That is interesting, unfortunately I don't think t would satisfy our customer in this case. 

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Mark McRae
Mar 13, 2017
Inaxsys Security Systems

We distribute a system called Protege WX from ICT. The WX can do 200 keypads (all supervised, individually adressed) per panel as well as 32 partitions. www.ict.co 

Sold in the US directly from their office in Denver

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UM
Undisclosed Manufacturer #1
Mar 16, 2017

That could be a good option, I will check them out. Thanks!

U
Undisclosed #3
Mar 14, 2017

Can I ask why you would want to have "one unified system" if all of those points are going to be armed and disarmed separately?

It may be a rare scenario where all 30 doors are right next to each other, but I have to imagine there is some physical separation between them that would allow for 2 or even 3 independent panels to be installed. From there, with a Bosch panel, you could download the programming to each panel. The only negative is that when users are added or removed, they would have to be added or removed from both panels if they have access to all areas. 

In my mind, I don't know that I would be comfortable with that many independent spaces being monitored by one system if security is really that important. But, I don't know the specific scenario so I don't want to paint with a broad brush. 

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Mark McRae
Mar 15, 2017
Inaxsys Security Systems

Hi UI3,

You would want a single panel so that you have a single link (single cost) of monitoring the system at a monitoring station (so you pay $25/month for your system with 10 areas instead of $25/month per system with 1 area = $250 per month for 10 systems). 

Another advantage of a single panel is that it is a single connection to add/delete/program cards/codes (Users). In this case you can link the rights of one Partition (or arming/disarming area) to be conditional on the condition of another partition (for example, to have a common lobby area that will only arm (automatically) when the 20 tenants are armed. Adding a User with rights to multiple doors and partitions is simply the choice of the appropriate access level.

Another example of a requirement for a massive amount of areas would be a mini-storage facility with 100 lockers. In this situation, you could have a single panel and only 2 proximity readers ("in" reader on the gate and "out" reader on the gate, for example). Each storage locker would a separate partition with separate rights/separate calling lists and alarm dispatch instructions. When a User presents his card to open the gate to enter, he disarms his personal partition at the same time. when he leaves and badges his card to open the gate, the re-arms his partition (so no possible false alarms and impossible to forget to arm or disarm). Our largest customer in number of partitions is a storage facility with 3000 lockers (for Protege GX controllers linked together over IP with 750 zones per panel).

I could go on and on with examples (condominium buildings, large shopping centres, small/medium/large strip-malls, multi-tenant office towers, large manufacturing facilities, universities, K-12 schools...).

 

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UM
Undisclosed Manufacturer #1
Mar 16, 2017

By a unified system what I mean is if there are two panels can an incident from either panel cause an alarm on the whole system if we are using multiple panels? 

And from a monitoring point of view can they easily see the status of the whole system if it is divided between multiple panels?

I guess I'm thinking of something like a VMS that can connect to multiple panels. 

I'm very new to intrusion alarms, just in the quoting phase at the moment, I will have to learn more about this as video is more my thing.

Thanks for the detailed response! 

UE
Undisclosed End User #4
Mar 16, 2017

I'm using gx, the big brother of wx, huge flexibility, I got rid of all but one keypad at each of my sites and only use card readers with pins for arming/disarming. You can have it run card only when disarmed, and card+pin when armed, triple/double swipe on the reader for arming the area.

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Mark Hillenburg
Mar 16, 2017

DMP XR550 does that. 32 areas...one keypad per area...each area can have its own Account number even. Arms and disarms independently. 

 

See the recent IPVM test of that panel here: https://ipvm.com/reports/dmp-xr-test

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John Bazyk
Mar 21, 2017
Command Corporation • IPVMU Certified

DMP XR550, as Mark said 32 areas. From what im reading above it sounds like DMP would be a good solution for you. You can really customize what keypads can see which areas and what passcodes can do what. We have done 20 on a handful of systems with no issues. They also have a UL Listing for Encrypted Line Security

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