Subscriber Discussion

Replacement Access Control Systems - Looking At Avigilon, DSX, AMAG So Far

UE
Undisclosed End User #1
Apr 17, 2017

We are looking to replace our access control system and am looking so far at Avigilon, DSX, and AMAG. I prefer open architecture like Avigilon vs proprietary like DSX, but could go proprietary if the features are worth it.

Any thoughts?

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Brian Rhodes
Apr 17, 2017
IPVMU Certified

By 'open' do you mean Mercury Security based?

Mercury platforms aren't open, per se, as much as they are compatible with many different software management platforms.

This chart, from Axis vs HID vs Mercury Access Controllers help define which platforms use Mercury:

Note: Brivo recently added Mercury support too.  See: Brivo Opens Up, Adds Mercury Support.  I'll get this image updated.

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UI
Undisclosed Integrator #8
Apr 24, 2017

What Bosch system uses Mercury (I believe RKP is gone).

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Brian Rhodes
Apr 24, 2017
IPVMU Certified

ReadyKeyPRO is End-of-Lifed and no Bosch no longer is selling new systems, but they have not yet stopped tech support.

Interestingly, Bosch has published (endorsed?) migrating RPK to another Mercury OEM: Lenel, but any Mercury partner could be a candidate.

As such, keeping RPK on this list could be valuable insight for just a while longer.

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Jonathan Lawry
Apr 26, 2017
Trecerdo, LLC

Also the A1001 list is incomplete.  I'll help you update it.

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Brian Anderson, CPP®
Dec 11, 2020
IPVMU Certified

Brian, Do you know where I could find an updated image that shows Brivo?

U
Undisclosed #9
Dec 11, 2020

If you are looking for some sort of verification that Brivo supports Mercury, I would highly suggest you not go down that road as it is chock full of landmines.

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Scott Smith
Dec 11, 2020
IPVMU Certified

Wow talk about bringing a thread up from the dead. This post is from 2017. ;-)

MM
Michael Miller
Apr 17, 2017

What features are on your must have list?  

I have a number of Avigilon ACM systems in the field with Mercury hardware and we have not had any issues with the systems and customers have given great feedback.   One of the best features of ACM is it is browser based with HTML5 web interface so you can access your system from any device on your network including your iPhone and Android devices without any client licenses or recurring fees. 

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JH
John Honovich
Apr 17, 2017
IPVM

One of the best features of ACM is it is browser based with HTML5 web interface so you can access your system from any device on your network including your iPhone and Android devices

Does ACM has a responsive web design in the current version? It did not in the past.

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MM
Michael Miller
Apr 18, 2017

The interface has had facelift since your last test and it seems like some of the interfaces is responsive but not the whole page.  I find it works well on my Nexus 6p and Galaxy tab 2.  

UE
Undisclosed End User #1
Apr 17, 2017

Thanks, Brian. I may have gotten the terminology incorrect. I prefer non-proprietary controllers, but it's not a deal breaker if a system with proprietary controllers outperforms on quality and functionality.

 

Thank you, Michael, for your comment. Here's a start:

Must haves:

No required recurring fees/revenue, e.g. annual license fees

Direct access to tech support

User configurable fields

Easily run canned reports

Easy user configured reports

Alerts such as use of terminated card

Facility site plan/map integration

Integrates with Zebra printers

Card expiration specified by date and time

Compatible with HID iClass/multiclass readers and iClass cards

 

Wants:

Visitor management system included

Alerts are conspicuously visual, e.g. large pop-up window

Can include security officer instructions in alert pop-up window

Integrates with video (preferably VideoInsight)

No charge to transfer data from old system

"Use it or lose it" feature

Records facility keys (manual keys) issued; searchable

 

 

 

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Brian Rhodes
Apr 17, 2017
IPVMU Certified

This is a great list.  Thanks.

To clarify, does 'use it or lose it' mean valid credentials automatically expire if not used in a certain period of time?

Also, which cameras types should be supported by an integrated VMS?  

Does 'included VMS' mean 'no additional cost'?

UE
Undisclosed End User #1
Apr 17, 2017

Brian, your assumption on "use it or lose it" is correct.

We have a variety of cameras -- Panasonic, Axis...a pretty broad mix.

And, yes, "included" means no additional cost and, preferably, part of the software package. We're finding some systems do not have it included as part of their software but are Integratable with third party Visitor Management Systems. That's an option, but we prefer included.

MM
Michael Miller
Apr 17, 2017

Will you be issuing printed Badges for your visitors?  

ACM does not have visitor management built-in but they work with Easy Lobby and Envoy.  Envoy is really slick. 

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UE
Undisclosed End User #1
Apr 17, 2017

Yes. We presently issue plastic badges that must be returned after each visit. We prefer to print disposable badges.

UI
Undisclosed Integrator #7
Apr 22, 2017

Do you need:

Visitor management

  • Do you need signature capture of visitors who sign for a badge
  • Driver's license capture of visitors who sign for a badge
  • Ability for building personnel to interact with Visitor Management System to schedule visitors in the system (so security/guard expects visitor)

Access Control:

  • Anitpassback
  • First in/first out rule
  • Threat escalation response (lockdown certain areas/doors when threat is present)
  • Escorted visitor rule
  • Ability to use multiple credentialing to access a space (specific group of card holders must present credential prior to allowing access to another users credential)

We have had luck with AMAG (although not "open" controller based), Genetec, Honeywell and Identicard.  All reliable and easy to work with if set up properly.

 

UE
Undisclosed End User #1
Apr 24, 2017

Thank you, UI #7. GREAT QUESTIONS. HERE'S THE RUN-DOWN:

Visitor management

  • Do you need signature capture of visitors who sign for a badge

YES BUT WE CAN DO SO SEPARATELY ON AN ELECTORNIC SIGNATURE PAD, IF NECESSARY

  • Driver's license capture of visitors who sign for a badge

WE'D LIKE TO CAPTURE THE NAME AND PHOTO BUT DON'T NEED NOR WANT ADDRESS, DL# NOR ANY OTHER ID'ING INFO.

  • Ability for building personnel to interact with Visitor Management System to schedule visitors in the system (so security/guard expects visitor)

WOULD BE FOOD TO CONSIDER AS AN OPTION, BUT NO PLANS FOR THAT NOW.

Access Control:

  • Anitpassback

NO

  • First in/first out rule

NO

  • Threat escalation response (lockdown certain areas/doors when threat is present)

YES FOR OUR LOBBY ONLY

  • Escorted visitor rule

DEFINITELY

  • Ability to use multiple credentialing to access a space (specific group of card holders must present credential prior to allowing access to another users credential)

NO

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Brandon Knutson
Apr 17, 2017
IPVMU Certified

What system are you currently using? Depending on what you currently have, you may be able to keep the hardware and just replace the software.

FYI, I've been asking around on options on access control for our school district and have heard nothing but praise for "Open Options" out of Texas.

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UE
Undisclosed End User #1
Apr 17, 2017

Thx, Brandon. We're using a system made by a small mfr. Their controllers are proprietary; not compatible with other systems.

UM
Undisclosed Manufacturer #2
Apr 18, 2017

So, basically just like DSX? I personally wouldn't consider them. Their interface is old and slow to update. There are several other good options like Open Options, RS2, S2, etc. that I would look at first. 

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UE
Undisclosed End User #1
Apr 19, 2017

Many thanks, UI-2. I'll try those, too.

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DD
Dan Droker
Apr 19, 2017
LONG Building Technologies • IPVMU Certified

DSX actually has a new UI with browser interface coming out soon.  Yes, it has been a long time coming, but I really trust them to make things work.  The platform also includes a lot of value for people looking for features like the list above.  The new software will have no additional licensing fees for most integrations/advanced features.

The hardware is proprietary, but is very well designed, will run forever, is widely forward/backward compatible within their platform, and is well supported by them.  There is a huge amount of flexibility in what you can accomplish with the system.

S2 is a great company that we also specialize in, but if you are looking to avoid annual fees, they are probably not for you.

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UE
Undisclosed End User #1
Apr 19, 2017

Thank you, Dan. This is good info. So, the best option as it relates to DSX is to wait and see how the new BI works out, correct?

DD
Dan Droker
Apr 19, 2017
LONG Building Technologies • IPVMU Certified

Yes, at this point I would wait for the new software before migrating a large system.

UI
Undisclosed Integrator #5
Apr 21, 2017

I work for an integrator now, but  I was a DSX end user several years ago.  As you mentioned, the hardware and client are solid, the UI was utilitarian.  I would like to see the new UI.

I don't know if DSX has changed their support sturcture, but they would not talk to the end user directly.  I had to go through the channel partner.

DD
Dan Droker
Apr 21, 2017
LONG Building Technologies • IPVMU Certified

A support plan can be purchased (through the integrator) if direct end user access to tech support is desired.  Otherwise, it is through the integrator.

UM
Undisclosed Manufacturer #3
Apr 18, 2017

"No required recurring fees/revenue, e.g. annual license fees"

 

Good luck finding this with any Mercury based option...Because they are buying hardware at a higher cost then someone that builds their own hardware this is the area where they make up their margins. This usually comes to light when you look at out year cost of ownership and should be considered with which ever manufacturer you chose. 

MM
Michael Miller
Apr 18, 2017

Avigilon ACM has no recurring or support fees and it is Mercury/HID based. 

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UE
Undisclosed End User #1
Apr 19, 2017

Thanks for your comment UM-3. I spoke with Avigilon at ISC. Unless incorrect, they do not have recurring fees and they do have direct access to tech support at no charge, but their functionality/features list is lesser than DSX and some others.

CP
Chris Powell
Apr 20, 2017
IPVMU Certified

You've provided a good list of requirements, and I see 'integrates with Video Insight'. I strongly suggest you look close at VI's own MonitorCast product. It's tightly-integrated, VMS-centric, Mercury-based, and has no recurring costs (VI's VMS licensing includes 1 door for every camera, with per-door licenses available if you have more doors than cameras).  MC is also rolling out integration with Time & Attendance systems, where the readers are used as time clocks (I've used the 1st readers slot on the EP1501 and MR51e controllers as 'clock in', with a 2nd reader as 'clock out').

I'd be glad to share more ... just reach out whenever you can.

UE
Undisclosed End User #1
Apr 21, 2017

Thank you, Michael. Do you know whether MonitorCast is broadly compatible with the major cameras -- Axis, Hik, Sony, Panasonic... -- or a pretty restricted scope compatibility?

CP
Chris Powell
Apr 21, 2017
IPVMU Certified

MonitorCast is camera-agnostic, or nearly so. Its built by the VI folks, and that VMS claims 3,000+ cameras supported (more if you include ONVIF compatibility).

UI
Undisclosed Integrator #4
Apr 21, 2017

I wouldn't look at ACM as a viable replacement system. The user interface is clunky and not intuitive. The reporting is a little limited, you cannot run a report on inputs or outputs and what controller/subpanel they are connected to. The ACC(VMS) to ACM (Access control) integration is a bit unwieldy and feels like a bolt on component. On an email message you cannot create a custom message. It only sends the generic event name in the email message body. They have a lot of little things they're still needing to iron out. Not crucial stuff but if your going to go through the effort to swap out you should be weary of ACM. It is not an enterprise level access control system yet. I will say this, their tech support is awesome (maybe best in the industry).

DSX current software is just ancient. If their new software is written on new code then that will be a huge improvement. Their tech support is good, panels are solid and their reporting is really good. I would wait to see what the new software looks like. It may be just a new skin in which case that would be a sign to move on. 

As someone else mentioned RS2 is a good system to check out. Mercury based, web client available, logical user interface and good tech support. They are a bit pricey with their client licenses though. Make sure to consider that with whatever you go with.

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UE
Undisclosed End User #1
Apr 21, 2017

Great info, UI4. Good points to consider. Thanks for your input.

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UI
Undisclosed Integrator #6
Apr 22, 2017

If going mercury I would highly suggest RS2 over Avigilon.

 

Disclaimer:

(Avigilon,DSX,RS2,S2,Lenel,Honeywell dealer)

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ST
Steven Turney
Apr 24, 2017

Can help you with an open platform that can also leverage the cloud if you are interested. 

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Scott Smith
Apr 24, 2017
IPVMU Certified

If you do US Government or DOD work it would be good to have AMAG or S2 in your portfolio.

 

UE
Undisclosed End User #1
Apr 24, 2017

Scott, we do not do government nor DOD work, but why is AMAG or S2 good for that? I wonder whether we would have the same factors present.

UI
Undisclosed Integrator #6
Apr 26, 2017

Why S2 or AMAG. If anything an integrator should go the Mercury route considering how much of the federal government is on Lenel/Pro-Watch/Vindicator. RS2 is also approved as is Open Options / Genetec.

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Scott Smith
Apr 24, 2017
IPVMU Certified

From what I was told there are only 4 manufactures that can do this:

"Symmetry V8 is now FICAM compliant, having met all testing approvals required by the U.S. General Services Administration.

AMAG’s dedicated Government Solutions Group is ready to help you determine your current physical and logical access control requirements and assist you in moving to a PIV-enabled physical access control system (PACS) system. AMAG’s Symmetry Access Control System is in accordance with HSPD-12 policy, accepts PIV credentials issued by other federal agencies, and aligns with the Federal Identity, Credential and Access Management (FICAM) roadmap. 

Symmetry supports users involved in smart card programs such as: PIV, CAC, TWIC & FRAC. Symmetry also supports your non-PIV visitors through included visitor management, badging, and optional DESFire card encoding. 

The Symmetry PACS is designed to provide powerful integrated access control and security management solution for end users needing to comply with Federal regulations such as: FIPS 201, FIPS 197, and SP800-116."

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Rick Caruthers
Apr 25, 2017
Galaxy Control Systems

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UE
Undisclosed End User #1
Dec 11, 2020

My personal experience:

Genetec is a decent system but no better than the others on the market. They have name recognition and not much else to set it apart from the competition. Licensing is very expensive. If you miss the annual payment, your cameras go black.

Maxxess is a pretty good system, but is unintuitive. They nickel and dime the customer by charging extra for basic functions, such as badging.

DSX is a pretty solid system with good functionality and effective interface.

Siemens SiPass is expensive and unreliable. Uses HID iClass/Multiclass readers, but are programmed to be proprietary, so you must use Siemens service to simply replace a card reader. Siemens service has been terrible at the two sites I have used them for installation and service, and there is little accountability for poor service performance.

That's my experience in a nutshell. Of the above systems, I favor DSX.

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Clint Hays
Dec 11, 2020

Dsx is a work horse. It's not very pretty (last time I saw it) but it works and lasts forever. I don't know how well the integrations are now but for straight access it was a easy system for operators to use.

UI
Undisclosed Integrator #7
Dec 11, 2020

If you miss the annual payment, your cameras go black.

This is not true for an on-premises deployment (non-cloud), curious what you are basing this statement on? If you do not maintain your Advantage Agreement you are not eligible for major version software upgrade, but you are in fact still eligible for minor upgrades. But cameras do not "go black" or drop off the system for failure to renew your Advantage Agreement.

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U
Undisclosed #9
Dec 12, 2020

Genetec is a decent system but no better than the others on the market. They have name recognition and not much else to set it apart from the competition. Licensing is very expensive. If you miss the annual payment, your cameras go black.

1. Using Genetec in the same sentence as DSX and SiPass and then saying that it's "no better than the others on the market" is, well laughable. Genetec is clearly better than the vast majority of access control systems, and that's not really debatable.

2. Following up a laughable position with a blatantly false statement isn't a good look either, as it further reinforces that you don't know what you're talking about. Standard Genetec licensing is perpetual, and nothing "goes black" because of any "annual payments" being missed. if you opted for subscription-based licensing and then complained that it stopped working, that's on you.

UI
Undisclosed Integrator #4
Dec 11, 2020

i Wonder if in the 3 years since this question was posed, if the OP has made up their mind yet.

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