Subscriber Discussion

Access Control On Glass Store Front Door/Splicing Existing Wires

UI
Undisclosed Integrator #1
Feb 21, 2019

We are on a project where several doors have mag locks, readers, and a REX. The doors are being swapped with standard glass store front doors, with a metal frame. They should all be single doors

 

What am I looking for when specifying a lock? Door hardware? I want to use a strike of some sort, no mag lock. I am not sure the doors have been ordered, or even specified.

 

Is it possible they can put a standard store room type lever on that door and we can use a standard strike?

 

I am also concerned if we use the same wire from the mag lock and try to get it down to the strike, we will not have enough cable. Can we splice it in the wall? I hate to do that, and not even sure its code compliant. But the access control panel is pretty far away and we would have to tear up a lot of drywall to rerun it. I am thinking single gang box with a blank plate?

U
Undisclosed #2
Feb 21, 2019

Engineers can mess up on an exit lane, so they add another lane to distribute the miscalculated population(traffic).

Physicians call you immediately when they realize they have prescribed a drug incorrectly.

Hens sit to hatch eggs that are not only their own but never crossed the road(never-fertilized).

If you choose to cost effectively splice, document how and why. Running a new wire with no splices is not comparable to running a wire to replace an 18g cable with a 16g cable do to current and distance differences(whew).

Stick to the facts, be mindful of the engineers calculations but do not get overrun with your own justifications. I have see many architects and engineers specify incorrect designs only to have a cataclysmic juncture where all parties realize the simplicity of the mistake.

Splice if you need to splice, Repeat if you need to repeat, Extend if you need to extend. Just do not ASSUME when you need to ASSUME.

Qualify your electrical loads between maglocks and the upgraded lock(shear lock?) what is needed, what has changed? Does the source PS need more amperage, does the source PS meet local code?

Local Code > Recommendations(sales reps).

Experience with your Local Code > zombies.

Curtail the fact that everything has a sequence 1,2,3,4 and must accept that order to achieve a desired result. Rather, think sometimes you must jump to line 8 and work backwards when everyone else is stuck on 1,2,3,4 sequences.

Last, I suggest this DIPA as it give you extra POWERS:

https://russianriverbrewing.com/pliny-the-elder/?age-verified=8a66049bd3

Now you are ready to splice!

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U
Undisclosed #3
Feb 21, 2019
IPVMU Certified

Qualify your electrical loads between maglocks and the upgraded lock(shear lock?)

just so you know, a shear lock is a maglock, OP says no maglock, specifies strike.

 

SD
Shannon Davis
Feb 21, 2019
IPVMU Certified

I'm surprised they aren't putting on exit devices such as the Von Duprin 99 series then you could add a QEL device or install say a HES 9000 series rim mount strike. Another option would be to use a latch-bolt such as the Steelhawk 4300 series if they are installing the typical keyed latch-bolt in the door.

As far as the splice goes that isn't a big deal or code violation as this is low voltage. With that being said U1 is correct make sure and label your wire and make notes that are written in the panel. You can put in a junction box for the splice as that will make it more professional looking. Not putting in a box is no different than installing an old Bosch DS150 exit motion that had the flying leads coming out the back. There wasn't anyway to put that in a box.

Get with the GC or whoever is providing the doors and see just what they are doing. That may solve your problem right there. If the doors had access control before they may have taken that into consideration. Many times over the years because of lack of communication the customer ends up paying for two sets of locking hardware. To help mitigate you risk have the glass door company provide the locking hardware and then you do the rest. Sure you out a little money on the install but you don't have to worry about getting the wrong hardware on the door.

Good luck with the project.

 

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Avatar
Brian Rhodes
Feb 21, 2019
IPVMU Certified

Get with the GC or whoever is providing the doors and see just what they are doing. That may solve your problem right there. If the doors had access control before they may have taken that into consideration. Many times over the years because of lack of communication the customer ends up paying for two sets of locking hardware. To help mitigate you risk have the glass door company provide the locking hardware and then you do the rest. Sure you out a little money on the install but you don't have to worry about getting the wrong hardware on the door.

There's a lot to agree with in Shannon's answer here.  +1.

With that said, do you have an idea or pictures of the type of hardware installed on the door?

These type of doors often have hook latches installed looking like this:

Some manufacturers sell electric strikes that match this type of lock, ie:

Can you share details on the locks?

SD
Shannon Davis
Feb 21, 2019
IPVMU Certified

We have learned, often the hard way, to put the locking hardware onto either the door company or the glass company especially if these are going to be new doors. They do this everyday and they can also cut the frames if necessary at the factory then everything is precise.

TM
Ty Mullen
Mar 15, 2019
COR Security, Inc.

You can have almost any type of lock installed on a storefront door as long as its planned for. Including cylindrical, mortise, and panic bar. Two things that are critical is that a door with a wide enough stile is ordered. And preferably that the doors AND frames are cut by the manufactures prior to shipping. The benefit of the factory doing is they are often being cut via CNC and they can also add backing where required. This is better than trying to field install aftermarket tabs to mount the locks too. I have seen some really bad installs. 

I personally steer clear of the Adam's Rite Steel Hawks or any other manufacture that utilizes the "storefront latch locks". I have never had one that wasn't a nightmare either during installation or post installation.

My go to favorites would be:

Adam's Rite Rim Device (Low to Medium Traffic) - Inexpensive, quick to install, can be installed on ANY storefront door, and can be power by a standard power supply. Command Access also has a similar one that works great. 

Von Duprin 33A Rim Device with Trine Surface Mounted Strike (Heavy Traffic) - Expensive, takes time to install because the 33A is not completely surface mounted, can't be installed on some really small stiles. You will have to also cut back the door stops, usually. Can be powered with standard power supply. 

 Von Duprin 33A Rim Device with SDC or Command Motor Kit (Heavy Traffic) - Expensive, takes time to install because the 33A is not completely surface mounted, can't be installed on some really small stiles. Can be powered with MOST power supplies. 

Cylindrical/Mortise with Electric Strike - (Medium to High Traffic) Moderately priced, requires a lot of coordination with the door sub & other parties because it should be cut at the factory and also needs to makes sure the stile is wide enough. Can be powered from any power supply.

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