Subscriber Discussion

55 Camera Job For School With Huge Vandalism Issue

UI
Undisclosed Integrator #1
Nov 03, 2016

I was approached to do a camera job for a school with ~55 cameras.The breakdown is 4 exterior PTZs in front and 18 fixed units around sides and back with remaining interior cameras. The back has huge problem with $70k in windows being smashed lately. The interior doesn't have a problem for most part. I was wondering what was best direction to go to cover vandal proof and low light in back areas, as lights being broken is a issue. Also the PTZ will be up 25-30 feet on front to cover parking lot. Any input or past experience would be welcome.

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MM
Michael Miller
Nov 03, 2016

Unless they have live operators skip the PTZ cameras and use high resolution or 180/multi imager cameras.

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UI
Undisclosed Integrator #1
Nov 03, 2016

Which units you have in mind?

MM
Michael Miller
Nov 03, 2016

We use a lot of Avigilon and their 4K PRO camera is very good in both day and low light settings. Also, the cost is right around PTZ camera price point. Bang for your buck I doubt your going to find a better-performing camera for your money with the image quality then this camera though if you are going to use another VMS besides Avigilon you will have to look at other options.

You can also use 180 cameras or multi-image cameras. Avigilon, Arecont, Pelco, Axis and Hikvision all have 180 or multi-imager cameras. These will work with a number of VMS solutions though the low light performance will not compare to the option above.

Avatar
Phil Coppola
Nov 03, 2016

I agree with Michael. Unless someone is monitoring the cameras forget the PTZ's.

However, I would not recommend Multi-sensor cameras for this application as they are not great in low-light conditions or under certain types of lighting.

I would recommend 4K resolution cameras instead of PTZs. Depending on the model/manufacturer (some 4K cameras are better than others), a 4K camera will provide you with better video at further distance and will be much less expensive than a PTZ. Consider models that have integrated IR LEDs as this will cover you should the lights be vandalized again.

I would also recommend installing camera that act as a deterrent for your other fixed models. Check out cameras that have dual-light technology. These cameras have the ability to two turn on bright white light LEDs, which are integrated into the camera, to alert vandals to the presence of CCTV. I am sure that the school would rather avoid additional vandalism.

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UM
Undisclosed Manufacturer #2
Nov 03, 2016

For the PTZs, many schools will use the PTZs so that in the morning they can watch the bus lane or parking lot. Off hours to watch the entrances to the lots, or overview of the lots.

In addition, I have seen schools use PTZs to verify that the parking lot has been cleared of snow so school can open.

PTZs can be useful for active shooter, etc. situations to be able to see egress, etc.

Avatar
Brandon Knutson
Nov 03, 2016
IPVMU Certified

I like the job's specs as-is if good low light cameras are used.

I too (still) like PTZs for the above reasons. The right PTZ offers great value even when not manned by an operator.

My favorite approach for school front parking lots is a combination of multi-imager camera(s) for overall situational awareness with a HD PTZ mounted up 20-30' with a line-cross analytic and auto-tracking used at night. I've had proven success with Hikvision 2MP Darkfighter PTZs, but no experience with its direct competitors.

HD PTZs are great when you have the need to cover two presets daily, like the vehicle entry at night and the bus lane in the morning. Programmed to automatically move to these presets on a set daily schedule.

The rear of schools are more challenging as the lighting is usually low and/or very uneven. If it was me, I'd be tempted to also try a quality low-light HD PTZ with cross-line detection and auto-tracking. Pointed at the place people are likely to access the rear of the school, likely rounding a building corner. Would also use fixed cameras at the rear of the school pointed at whatever is most important, most of the time, to school administration (exterior entries, play area, loading area, etc. ).

K-5 schools seem to favor exterior camera coverage to prevent vandalism and 6-12 schools seem to favor interior camera coverage for disciplinary issues.

PK
Patrick Kelly
Nov 03, 2016

Full Disclosure: I work for DW

UI#1,

We have used both multi-sensor panoramic and MP PTZ cameras in solutions for other schools around the country. If you would like to see a quick demonstration contact me

Thanks,

Patrick

HF
Hunter Fort
Nov 03, 2016

Here is an idea: Why not try to prevent the vandalism instead of just capturing it?

Use a good low light camera for detection with decent analytics as to avoid using standard Video Motion so that you can reduce your false alarm rate and add in the ability to play audio WAV files in the event of detection during a specified time table (night time or weekends).

Your customer would love you for preventing the event more so than just capturing it.

Couple that with the ability to have the camera system notify via email or text messaging to a mobile device of the event and should the mobile app support two way audio you could also have another means for actively trying to stop these events from occurring in the first place.

It's great to capture the damage but at that point the damage is already done. Prevent it and you save the customer money....

Now to come up with this equipment, I could help you if it were MOBOTIX as this is already built into our devices. Maybe some others could help with another manufacturer based solution.

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MM
Michael Miller
Nov 03, 2016

Or take it to the next level have central station monitor the analytic events for real time voice downs.

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Avatar
Jeffrey Hinckley
Nov 03, 2016

4k has its place in applications, but only where there is adequate lighting available. In addition, you have to also consider the bandwidth and storage requirements, especially in dark-lit environments. 4K at night can jump to 15-20 Mbps. Exposure control will need to open the iris and/or show the shutter for images, reducing field of view.

Multi-imagers can be good, but many times I see them setup to either be too high, reducing coverage below the camera, or two low, reducing the distant views you are trying to acquire. In many instances, against a building (Arecont AV8185, AV20185), half of the image from the side cameras are of the wall. For that price, and in low lit environments (I live in Maine, 4:30pm until 7am it is dark), you are best to go with a low light (Bosch, Axis, Hikvision) 1080 camera at a lower height strategically places to cover the area next to the building (request was for vandalism, 180 multi-s are not good at seeing below on the adjacent wall), with 16 x 9 aspect, which will provide much more efficient bandwidth/storage per pixel (at night). With the ones we use, which see in almost complete darkness, in color, we can get (3) of them for the cost of a multi-imager or 4K.

Use the fixed 1080 cameras to provide complete coverage and assign a couple to the choke points, where cars or individuals enter/exit for identification. If you need to, use wireless to the front or rear entry roads (or paths) to make this id.

I am on board with the HD PTZ cameras nowadays. If a school has an SRO or active asst. principals, you should be using HD PTZ (in a fixed camera position) on strategic locations (corners of building) for investigation purposes. Student parking lots for sure. If budget is a concern, we may at least put some lower cost PTZ 720, 23X units up (not the greatest at night) since their primary use is during daytime school activities (and pot smoking at lunch in student parking).

For the case you are referring to, (4) 2df6236/2de5174 corner mounted, (18) 2cd4526 wall pendant mounted(don't flush mount), and (33) 2cd2122/2cd2142/2cd2112 plus install/setup, servers, switches, ups, and licenses. Maybe a couple of Raytec illuminators (IR or White) and Ubiquiti radios.

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HF
Hunter Fort
Nov 03, 2016

Here is a youtube video of an actual event using the detect and deter method using MOBOTIX camera. Crime Prevention Through Environmental Design - CPTED

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rZKAjqV55fU

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