Member Discussion

Looking For 4K Camera With ONVIF Profile H.265 Compatibility

I'm having trouble finding a camera that supports 4K resolution and H.265 recording under ONVIF Profile. There are plenty of cameras that support H.265 with their own proprietary recording software or hardware NVR, but I can't find any that support H.265 encoding under ONVIF. The amount of space required to save 30 days of storage under H.264 for 12 cameras recording 4K at 15 frames per second is over 110 terabytes. With H.265, the storage space falls to less than 15 terabytes according to Synology.
 
We purchased one Honeywell H4D8PR1 to evaluate however quickly realized the ONVIF Profile only supports H.264 unless we purchase Honeywell's proprietary NVR.
 
https://www.security.honeywell.com/uk/products/video/ip-products/embedded-nvrs/1327189.html
 
Possibly interested in Mobotix's new Move line, however again it only supports H.264.
 
Also, any input on 4 MP resolution at 30 fps vs 8 MP resolution at 15 fps? Which is better or it depends on the application?
 
Application: We are looking at up to 12 dome cameras for a food manufacturing facility. The purpose of the installation is for food safety prevention under new FDA regulations.
 
Prefer buying outside of China although the Honeywell is almost certainly made by an OEM.

#1, thanks for your first comment!

The amount of space required to save 30 days of storage under H.264 for 12 cameras recording 4K at 15 frames per second is over 110 terabytes. With H.265, the storage space falls to less than 15 terabytes according to Synology.

That's not accurate. In our testing and even in most manufacturer marketing, H.265's savings are only in the order of 25-50%, not the 86% being claimed.

Also, smart codecs, whether smart H.264 or smart H.265, save more than just switching to 'regular' H.265.

I've asked Sean on our team to help with specific camera / VM recommendations. Related, he is testing Synology right now, so he can talk specifically about Synology integrations.

There are sometimes drawbacks to smart H.264 or smart H.265, like you lose the ability to setup IVS rules. 

That's a mostly a Dahua problem, not an H.264 or H.265 one generally.

We have a report covering ONVIF's limited/non-existent support of H.265 (IPVM Report) from a couple years ago, so unfortunately your findings make sense. 

Are you planning on using Synology Surveillance Station for recording, or just using it for NAS storage for a different VMS? Surveillance Station has direct camera driver support (as do other VMSes obviously) so you might not need to rely on using an ONVIF driver.

Hanwha

PNV-9080R

PND-9080R

PNO-9080R

I'm working with multiple partners in food processing locations and these are extremely harsh environments for cameras to stay running, and in these I could suggest Mobotix hardware or something in a stainless steel housing that is at least IP67 rated for when they are cleaning with water jets and chemicals.

 

The resolution/frame-rate challenge is going to depend on the scenes motions levels greatly. If you have a fast moving environment then I'd probably err on the side of frame-rate.

 

Are you specifically required to use a certain resolution by design or a functional need?

Look into the calculator tools, and select the cameras of your choice ( brand and model). If your cameras is listed on there you can tell the difference between 4mp to 4k at a distance and wide or narrow angle depend on how you adjust your lens.

 

Look into Axis cameras and NVR, all though they are bite more expensive 

This is another major problem in our industry today, standardization.  Every manufacturer seems to want to implement their own version of H.265 or call it some type of "smart" H.264, but they all seem to modify whatever it is so that it only works with their own equipment.  It's logical, make them work only with your own stuff and you own the entire product line for whomever wants to use your equipment, but really doesn't fly too well in this day and age.  I applaud ONVIF for trying to offer a solution for compatibility, but it's never really been taken to the level necessary to get the manufacturers in line and never will with what we are dealing with today.

 

Correct me if I'm wrong, but the Smart Codecs are all done on camera and have zero to do with the recording platform at all. The stream delivered from the camera already has the reductions done prior to streaming the image. All the recording platform will see is an H.264/265 stream with reduced bandwidth. 

Jon,

You are pretty much correct.  The encoding is done on the camera side, so it works with most VMS or NVR or Cloud system without knowing that it is "Smart".  The only exception is some VMS are looking for consistent, steady I-Frames.  If the smart codec dynamically changes when they occur, some VMS will freak out.

Some camera manufacturers their smart codec is on or off.  If your VMS doesn't like the I-frame manipulation, then you have to turn smart codec off.  Other cameras allow you to independently configure each part of the codec so you can turn one part on and another off as needed.

In most cases, the VMS doesn't know or care. A proper VMS will even send an I-frame request when requesting a camera so it doesn't need to wait many seconds for the next I-Frame in case there is no motion.