Subscriber Discussion

4G Connectivity With Static IP - Should We Use This?

BJ
Brent J
May 22, 2018
Spyglass Tech

Great post. We're looking into 4G connectivity for customers. However a static IP address starts with a $500 'new account' fee, for both Verizon and AT&T. When your customer only needs 1 static IP, that an be a little high. We're researching the option of sticking with dynamic IP and using a Dynamic DNS (DDNS) service like NoIP to regain the benefit of a static IP. The second part of the equation would be setting up the VPN with this configuration. There seems to be conspicuously little talk around the interwebs about this setup. Perhaps we're missing something. Is there any experience with this? 

NOTICE: This comment was moved from an existing discussion: Cellular (4G / LTE / 5G) For Video Surveillance Guide

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richard wright
May 23, 2018

they are going to be paying  at least 600$ a year (likely more) for the rest of their (4g usage) lives, tell them to eat the $500(at least its a one time cost...)

Thats my personal opinion, one less thing to fail. 

 

it IS possible to use VPN with a DDNS service. ive used cradlepoint 4g stuff and heres the first thing i googled: http://usatcorp.com/faqs/series-3-can-find-vpn-setup-example-dynamic-ip-address-connections/

thats for a site to site vpn but any of the other legit 4g router vendors probably have something out there or are willing to answer your question (sierra etc)

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BJ
Brent J
May 23, 2018
Spyglass Tech

Thanks Richard. Agreed that a fixed line connection is preferred. If there is one already available, our problems are usually already solved. 

Some of these systems are in remote areas where a fixed line isn't available or feasible. The ongoing data cost comes in around $10/GB/mo. Depending on setup and settings, it can go a long way.

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Frank Farmilette
May 23, 2018
A2 Systems

I have a customer using a ComNet CNFE3TX2CXMS 4G modem to monitor a remote video site.

Depending on your application, you may need ports open. I could not get them open any way that I tried using a DDNS service that would work reliably and consistently.

That being said, after the dance with AT&T getting a business class SIM/UICC card (they do not give out residential static IP assigned cards), the system works great. Yes, the start-up cost with AT&T was $500, but the customer took care of that as well as opened up the business account.

Basically 4G for security should only be used as a last, more expensive alternative if no other options are available but it can be done.

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GM
Greg Masters
Oct 08, 2018

I agree, a static, public IP is the most straightforward way.  There are some vendors who resell verizon/att and do not charge the static IP fee.  We have used one.  Although the first "sim" card we received for our 4g router was not setup with a static IP, we had to get them to reconfigure our service as they agreed.

The problem with most cell service data plans is the IP addresses are all NAT'ed. Same as you do with your home router, if you wanted to access your camera at IP 192.168.0.11 you would need to access your public IP and set a port forward in your router.  While dynamic dns services can take care of your changing IP, the main issue is that cell carriers IP's are not public, regardless what they are they are "private" (NAT) on their network and not publicly routable.  And they will not set up forwards for you. A 4g device can only initiate a connection outbound, once established, then data (internet) can be received.  No one can ping or access your phone/router etc from the internet over its private IP.

From a carrier standpoint, it allows them to provide service without using more IPv4 addresses, and there are security benefits. From a customer view, for us, it is a major issue.

There IS a workaround, though, it is a lot of work but we have played with this.  If you have a small PC (Intel NUC, RPi, etc) on the customer's end, you can set up a reverse SSH tunnel using autossh, once the tunnel is created (you will also need a relay server which is accessible on the internet) you can create a SSH connection into the relay server from your remote location and port map from your local PC to the camera behind the cell carrier NAT router and access/look at your camera.  Autossh will monitor the tunnel and restart it if the connection is dropped, or the carrier changes the IP address.  A VPN can work similarly but the reverse SSH tunnel is, in effect the same as a VPN without the overhead.

The static, public IP is **much** easier and reliable, if you can get one.

 

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GN
Greg Nuckles
Oct 08, 2018
IPVMU Certified

Greg - excellent and accurate.  We mainly work with Verizon/Static, but have had the unfortunate experience with AT&T and their NAT'ed IP addresses.  We could not DDNS this and had to call AT&T with the customer to help explain why a static IP address is needed.  Sometimes they will waive the $500 depending on the customer (in our experience). 

MM
Michael Miller
Oct 08, 2018

So you're looking at Verizon's M2M setup.  Is your plan to get one account for you to resell to your customers or have all your customers sign up for an M2M account? 

 

We always recommend static IP addresses as that is one less thing to go wrong. 

 

What type of VPN are you looking for? Site to Site or SSL?

GN
Greg Nuckles
Oct 08, 2018
IPVMU Certified

Michael we use M2M, but only for health monitoring of camera systems because of the incredibly high costs associated with those plans.  Do you have a better solution?  

MM
Michael Miller
Oct 08, 2018

So you use the LTE just for out of band monitoring/management, not camera streaming? All of our LTE projects are government customers with unlimited data.  Our systems go on there accounts so we don't have to worry about the managing of the data plans. 

 

You can get one M2M account and add your customers under your account.  Data is pooled between all your accounts but you still have to manage any data overages/billing. 

VE
Vladimir Eremeev
Oct 09, 2018

If you need to use 4G for surveillance (streaming and\or health monitoring), VSaaS can be an option (not p2p). With it you don't need static IP, port forwarding, etc... 

I'm from Ivideon VSaaS, we have a lot of customers - SOHO, Ent , using service with cellular Internet connection. Even for surveillance at transport.

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Undisclosed #1
Oct 17, 2019

so you don't have issues with a Verizon double NAT?

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U
Undisclosed #2
Oct 18, 2019

I use Verizon static IPs with Cradlepoint, yes the initial is 500 however you can segment easily using DYN for client access needs.

I can build accounts on this for customer needed (RMR) access to those accounts for basic administrative operations.

However for the down low maintenance I would suggest using ZEROTIER as a low end admin, remote config tool for integrator administrative/monitoring need to limit valuable truck rolls to the site.

Good Luck!

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