REQUIRED: READ THE FOCUSING TUTORIAL FIRST.
Auto focus (sometimes 'auto back focus') is not available on every IP camera, but is growing to be more common. Indeed, some purchase specifications describe it as a 'must have' feature even though some view it only as a 'installation aid'.
What do you think? Are cameras with an auto focus a game changer? Is auto focus/ auto back focus useful for more than just initial installation?
seems like this would just add one more thing that could potentially become a problem
It is mechanical and at some point, it may break. That said, even if it did break presumably years in the future, that would not break the camera overall. You'd simply be left back with a camera that you would need to manually fine focus, like you with non ABF cameras.
I'd one major positive - a lot of people are bad at maximizing fine focus because it's easy to be off by a little bit and not see it on the monitor unless you have a focusing aid/chart/person in front of the camera.
I've found this a huge time-saver and quality enhancer. The most difficult part of installation, it seems, is working to get the very best focus, either with a hand-held monitor at the camera end or working with another person watching the head-end. Just get close, frame the view as you want, then fine-tune automatically. It's the most auto-magical feature I've experienced.
I think it can depend on the camera application itself-- for scenes that do not require a low depth of field, you don't have to depend as much on dynamically focusing the image. Many of our camera implementations are designed to provide a general view of our monitor points and/or alarms to provide alarm assessment vs. the need for evidentiary footage. However, I think this feature is essential for applications such as people tracking and license plate recognition due to the likely shifting of object position in the camera view.
Depth of Field is a rarely a practical problem in surveillance (see our guide on Depth of Field).
I find this feature to be beneficial but this should not be a determining factor for camera selection. The selection of camera should still fall back to the requirement of the camera and in other technical specification.
Larger installation typical required different people instaling camera at various locations. This might also meant that the level of "in-focus" is different from person to person. The benefit that I can derived from this feature is that it put a standard definition of "in-focus" to cameras of the same model.
Is auto focus useful for periodically refocusing previously hung cameras? Do end users take advantage of this feature?
I would think that this is useful if one need to do a factory default reset on the camera and it lost the focus. With my limited site experience, the end user generally do not take advantage of this. They will just conveniently get the person who does the camera installation to do it for them. Not all users are fully aware of the features that a camera offers.
Auto focusing typically is beneficial for far more than factory default resets. Cameras with auto focusing generally will refocus dynamically if it senses the camera is out of focus, as well as when it switches between day and night.
End users may not be all aware of the 'feature' but they are aware of the common problem of cameras being out of focus.
john I agree with you on that... years ago installing analog cameras in our area we would typically have to do seasonal service callsfor our customer to re-focus cameras... we have extreme freeze/thaw cycles that cause cameras to slip out of focus from time to time... with ip and the availability of autofocus that has become an issue of the past as the cameras will maintain focus as you have described or we can remotely focus cameras as necessary...
Thanks Keefe. One thing to add, for others, is to keep in mind that auto focus is not available for all cameras and it often means choosing a more expensive tier of camera to get it. It's typically not extremely expensive but if someone wants budget cameras, it often means they will lose out on auto focus.
game changer yes... I believe in most cases it to be more reliable than traditional manually focusing... apart from initial installation it helps a camera to maintain focus which leads to happy customers...
I would feel auto focus feature would become a must have feature in higher megapixel camera, find it especially true when it hits 5M. When it hits higher res. it seems like it is harder and harder to focus in a small monitor, without it, it may look perfect on the monitor, but untill you zoom in to see detail, that is when you find it is out of focus if you do it manually without manufacturer's tool to help with the focus.
Most of the installer that have used it already, find it useful to have this feature to save time or the cost on labor during installation.
The major drawback that I see as an sales, the client is not willing to use this feature due to the price gap or they are worry if they wish to focus on object in the background instead of the front of the field of view (which some cameras allows you to adjust the focus on certain region, not sure if that is a basic feature on all ip cam?)
"worry if they wish to focus on object in the background instead of the front of the field of view"
Many cameras offer the option to focus in an area. That said, typically it does not make much of a difference.
From the installers perspective - it's a a fantastic time saver and I really push it. From the owners, I'm not assure it's a "must have". Mostly comes down to budget and functionality for the owner. I've met some really budget minded folks in my business that will take low bid and not give the "auto focus" feature a chance as I try to explain why I'm "too high"...
Tony, good points. Theoretically, the labor bid should be marginally lower because you can deduct X number of minutes per camera per job.
The other part is a little harder to sell but there most certainly will be labor savings for ongoing service plus the benefit of not having the pain of cameras drifting (and staying) out of focus.
True John. I'm very new to market and hope to hone those labor estimates over the next year so I can cut those install times with more confidence.
if the discussion comes up with a customer we will use auto focus as a selling point... the big one for us is the "seasonal" service calls that are necessary to focus older analog cameras that we still support and some non-auto focus ip... customers who have hybrid systems with analog (encoders) and ip cameras see the benefit first hand... they don't mind paying for a twice a year service call they really like the fact that their cameras are always in focus...
Cameras with auto focus have to b a benifit to both parties the installers and the client.The installers get the advantage of saving time on the install with less time trying to focus the camera in different light,and the client gets a camera that is giong to perform without general maintance required. Yes it's a hard to sell the better camera to the client with the extra features but the pros do out way cons.
Auto focus I find great,I can perform the fine tune adjustment to the camera over the web connection to suit the lighting conditions required and know once set up the camera will adjust to suit.(A constantly in focus shot is better than a hit and miss).
Its not really a game changer but a nice to have feature for two reasons:
1- It reduces installation and maintenence time.
2- It stops the camera from driffting out of focus
As Mr Lafth read my mind, it is a good aid for installers and professional end-users. At least in countries where thera are four complete different season, from extreme brightness on summer, to endless dark in winter, finally there is a easier way of calibrating the camera image than taking the ladders and climb to it. But as stated before, those features are now on the more expensive models but they are coming to the cheaper models also. For example Hikvision cameras. Do keep in mind that there are "true"auto focus and motorized varifocal lens, where on the latter you can focus the camera manually from the browser, but it does no automatically focus it to anywhere. On a whole, this is a big thing now on the professional end-users, and I came a cross to a project where they wanted the auto focus feature to be inside the CMS. Which meant using spesific CMS to their own cameras. So to the integrators it is also a way of selling more service to end-users than before.
I think the Auto Focus is a great feature, but will it become out of focus if something new comes into the scene? I guess that would be my only complaint is that it went out of focus without anyone knowing and then the client has had an out of focus camera for a day or two, or possibly longer depending on how often they check it. If that isnt an issue ever then i feel like it would be a no brainer.
Typically, auto focus cameras periodically re-check and re-focus cameras (most commonly switching between day and night modes). In any event, if that happened with a non auto-focus camera, it would be out of focus indefinitely until someone physically went to the camera.
Thanks for clearing that up. That makes sense. I was unclear if it constantly was checking and updating the focus.
The auto focus is a must have for my situation. When we bring a camera up and are ready to start recording we usually are doing 10-20 cameras at one time so in the sense of saving time and headache the auto focus is our best route which means that it is a game changer for us. The auto focus is a nice feature to have for more than just installation as most of our cameras have PTZ and they are used to scan our parking lots and buildings thus needing that auto focus to make our jobs easier.
It would seem the auto focus would be a nice feature in situations where the focus needs to keep adapting to the scene. Over time I would think that the auto focus feature would wear down the camera and eventually break If the cameras with auto focus also had manual focus capabilities then I would think that the option would be highly useful and eventually expected.
Chase, eventually it might break. How frequently, I don't know. However, it's not like it's autofocusing all day long (like a PTZ on tour). It might autofocus a few times a day at most. I doubt it's going to become a huge problem. With box cameras (that have auto back focus), the manual focus capabilities remain). With dome cameras with auto zoom and auto focus, typically there's no manual option.
It is definite game changer in the world of the Technician onsite, it is so much easier for the Tech on the ladder holding a hand held monitor trying to adjust / focus the camera in not the greatest conditions. Many of the IP video cameras now being produced have auto focus..it is a must have feature.
I agree with Vikee above that maually focusing higher definition cameras is harder and the electronics can potentially do a better job, certainly a more consistent job across an installation.
I have, until reading above, viewed auto focus as electonically assisted focus. To me, an autofocus camera would constantly be adjustng focus, kind of like a camcorder or John's example of a PTZ. I was not aware of John's statement that this type of camera re-adjusted several times a day or as needed. I had been concerned with drifting focus.
Do a large percentage of auto-focus cameras do this checking?
Auto focusing cameras typically only re-focus infrequently. The exception is a PTZ, every time it zooms, it refocuses. However, a fixed camera with a constant focus will only re-focus intermittently or when a user triggers it.
I think it is an important feature to have considering the time spent on manually and repetitively adjusting the focus. You may even not notice the camera has been out of focus for many days if you are checking very frequently. Even more, the success of focusing is very subjective in the manual mode. Also, I strongly agree with some of the previous comments on keeping the camera in focus when changing from day to night and also with zooming of PTZ cameras. To me, it feels like a must-have feature.
It's not clear if folks are referring to 'remote back focus/lens focus' as often used on higher-end box/dome cameras during installation (a huge time and installation quality improvement, but often not cost acceptable), or 'true auto focus' like on most PTZ cameras.
You say it's growing more common - what fixed/dome cameras now use it? I haven't seen it on the lines I install - except on PTZ's. Have you done a review of true auto focus box/dome cameras recently?
Michael, most of the box cameras we test now have auto back focus built in (like Axis P, Sony, Bosch, Pelco Sarix, Avigilon, etc.). It would be easier to cite which ones do not.
What fixed cameras do you normally use? Typically, today if the camera sells for over $500, it generally has auto focus built in.
John, I just got of a chat with the Axis folks, who's cameras I use almost exclusively, and they confirm that the only 'fixed' camera that they have that has this 'true auto focus' feature is the P1755 - an older model that has a zoom lens. Of course, as I mentioned, PTZ cameras do have this feature, as they 'auto focus' every time you adjust the zoom.
I believe we have a semantics issue here...
If you know of other brands, name a couple of models....
I believe you mean the Q1755 and yes that has an integrated zoom lens. I think they are defining 'true' differently
That said, all the P13 models have this function. In their marketing language, they are calling it "remote back focus function that enables the focus to be fine-tuned from a computer." This allows automatically refocusing the camera without having someone at the camera.
Like I said most premium box brands (Sony V and X series, Bosch Dinion, Sarix high end models, etc.) have this feature. This is just off the top of my head.
Moreover, all of Axis P33 domes have what they call "Easy installation with remote focus and zoom."
Ah yes, I did mean the Q1755.
Yes, then this is indeed a semantics issue, as this remote focus capability requires user intervention - you have to get on the camera setup/management page to remotely adjust the focus - which does indeed 'automatically' fine tune the focus, once you command the action.
To me, this is not 'true auto focus' as it requires user intervention to action. If, for example, you forgot to tighten down the varifocal zoom or course focus knobs on the lens during installation, and vibration or thermal action moved the lens elements, the camera will not 'automatically' re-focus the camera.
Ask me how I know...
Well, this brings up an interesting dynamic. A number of manufacturers automatically re-focus when they detect problems or when the cut over between day and night (Sony and Pelco Sarix box cameras are two that immediately come to mind). It would be very strange that Axis could not detect (periodically) when the camera is out of focus and attempt to automatically refocus (especially since many of their competitors do).
Ethan, can you talk to Axis and other manufacturers about this nuance.
Now that it's clear we are talking about remote back focus/ lens focus, I will add one tactic that has proven useful to me.
When on the camera setup/management page, and after using the 'auto focus' feature, I've found that if I bring up the camera on the VMS I'm using (any will do) and digitally zoom into the image at the area of principal interest, I can usually improve on the initial 'auto focus' adjustment with further manual (remote) tweaking. Sometimes, to a surprising degree of improvement, not evident in fully 'zoom'ed out' image viewing...
It would be depending on a customer and where to use. However, I believe, it is not going to hurt to have one. It will not only save time but also provide a better quality of an image. Some customer wouldn't prefer to have 'Auto Focs' Feature because it is not neccessary for their applications. On the other hand, it might be a major function the customer needs for their applications. I beileve that Auto Focus feature provides more precise focus value than fixed lens.
Most of integators are prferring lenses to fixed focal length.
First, varifocal lenses allow the field of view to be changed after the camera is installed, without changing the lens.
If conditions on the site differ even slightly from how they were when a pre-installation site survey was performed,
it may affect lens selection drastically.
Varifocal lenses allow fine-tunning to account for these differences, as well as customers smply changing their mind.
I feel that this is a great feature to have, but may not apply to every install. Regardless of the price, I believe by far that this is the way the industry is heading if not there already.
I think autofocus is great, however I have seen cameras with that capability get out of focus for no good reason. It is an easy fix, just login and auto-focus again, but a manual focus will not get out of focus unless it is physically hit (and it was loose to begin with) or someone messes with the focus.
Travis, do you recall why the camera got of focus or how often it did? On rare occasions we see cameras getting out of focused when they are started/re-booted in the dark. Typically though they re-focus on their own on the next day/night change.
That should have went here. Tried to delete the other post.
I'm unsure of what caused it to become out of focus but it had the issue a couple of times and after firmware was updated, I don't think it has happened since but we have several other cameras of the same model that did not have this issue with the same version of firmware. This happened some time back and I can't remember if there was a power outage before this happened.
This brings up a good point. These focus controls are only as good as the software applications use to control / set them. We have seen some issues with auto focusing having problems - infrequent though.
I'm of the opinion that auto focus is a must if the installation site does not have a dedicated IT team or service plan with the installer.
A call out would be frightfully expensive for something as simple as a focus adjustment.
I'm unsure of what caused it to become out of focus but it had the issue a couple of times and after firmware was updated, I don't think it has happened since but we have several other cameras of the same model that did not have this issue with the same version of firmware. This happened some time back and I can't remember if there was a power outage before this happened.
I'm just entering the discussion, but it seems to me auto focus is particularly valuable on those cameras installed well out of reach of a standard height ladder (we don't keep a bucket truck handy for my crew). I've been told that it can take up to 6 months to "dial a camera in", as varying light conditions caused by seasonal changes must be adjusted for. Is that still the case with auto focusing cameras, or do they adjust for changing light conditions automatically?
Gary, it's definitely a greater benefit when cameras are hard to reach. Your example of needing a bucket truck is a good one.
That said, I am not sure why it would take months to 'dial a camera in'. Light may vary but I am not sure what you can do really deal with that short of move the camera (it's not like refocusing would make a difference there.
I saw a significant timesavings on my first autofocus install this feature is invaluable and compared to the old days of using special meters and welding glass a huge step fprward
Michael, the welding glass is a good point. For those not familiar, many older lenses were not capable / rated for D/N, and when a camera switched to night mode (or vice versa), the IR light would shift the focus, causing problems. The typical solution was focusing with a welding glass. For cameras that automatically re-focus when switching from day to night, this eliminates the problem.
I think having "automatic" features is always a great option and it should be included for remote focus once the camera is installed. However, having the ability to do it manually is just as important; what if you have a camera that's pointing down a hallway or double glass doors? Will auto focus know where to focus or will it distort the outside somehow because of light or object (doors) proximity?
I'm curious how, and if it comes into play with the fish eye lenses that can retrofit some bullet cameras with auto focus built in. For example: a Bosch with an immervision lens, is that common? how would it work then?
I think that significant gains can be realized by the locations not having to peform adhoc adjustments to remote cameras. I think there is a marriage between letting systems do somewhat self repairr and then follow up with structured maintenance plan. An autofocus where a camera is in a larger enclosure for environment protection will not be effective if the enclosing device is not maintained. I would certainly opt for auto focus cameras however ensure that adequate understanding at the location to not ignore the physical environment the system is positioned in.
As a consultant who performs job inspections and checks the focus on each camera I have found that this is a must have feature. I often come up with very long lists of cameras that are out of focus on jobs with manual focus lenses and often contractors still do not get the focus to a level I find acceptable after a first pass. I really do not blame the contractors either, manual lenses are really just that hard to focus while on a ladder viewing a small monitor or communicating over a radio with network lag.
Auto Focus is a good thing, as an end user it is not often that I install a camera. However, the fact that once the camera is installed it will periodically adjust on it's own is helpful in that it is one less problem with which I am concerned with. This technology is also useful in that as an end user on many ocassions I've experienced cameras (PTZs) having been left focused on a target area (outdoors) where during daylight hours there is sufficient light to accomodate the camera, then as daylight begins to diiminish the camera completely loses focus and you can't make heads or tails of what the camera was focused on. For these reasons I do believe auto focus technology is well worth the extra cost relative to the simplicity of use provided to the end users and the amount of time and money saved with respect to a lower necessity to perform maintenance.
Game changer - yes. Example A; you have 1600 cameras at a government funded correctional facility that can't afford the (Platinum, Tier 1, whatever you want to call it) service contract, the quarterly/annually labor time for re-focusing has dramatically changed.
Even better, we can teach the operators how to re-focus (if it doesn't re focus itself properly) as part of a parallel support agreement. The customer handles a,b,c portions of maintenance and 1-10 of troubleshooting 101. We come in for higher technical problems.
Example B; (Customer) "My camera is blurry" (Service Department) "May we remote in and have a look?". (Customer) "Yes, I will arrange with my IT guy". (Service Department) "Just following up, we fixed the blurry camera remotely for minimal/no charge".. (Customer) "Great, don't let it happen again".
Both of these are obviously lifecycle examples of why my opinion is yes. We do hope to have an audience with our buyers long enough to make this particular case during competitive bids!!
I think this is a great feature to have. If you have junior installers it seems to work really well. It also can help with time of installation if there are a lot of cameras on the job this will tie up the installers on manually focusing cameras to find the best view. It also helps when you go back to look at the cameras if you can do remote focusing. It is mechanical but I believe the good outweighs the bad.
I think auto focus is a huge plus, especially for tricky outdoor installs...
I think that autofocus is a great feature on cameras. Yes, the feature helps "speed" the installation. However, I believe that this feature is a great benefit for a novice end user. The camera will simply refocus when zooming in or out or you can tap a button to refocus the image depending the on camera that is being utilized.
Auto focus is so nice, one person and multiple cameras at one.
It is not much fun opening each camea and making adjustments on ladder one at a time with another person on the other side reviewing the image. Just slows you down.
Auto focus is a great feature, but I wouldn't necessarily call it a "game changer". Sure, you save valuable time during installation and maintenance, but auto-focusing a camera down a long, narrow hallway can prove troublesome due to depth of field issues.
Take for example, this hallway image from the Camera Selection Guide report.
Now, an installer would most likely have to manually focus the camera for the middle section of the hallway, to keep both the foreground and background/end of the hallway in focus, and negate depth of field issues.
Let's say, for instance, the camera eventually slips out of focus. If an operator auto-focuses this camera, where would the camera focus? Would it be more towards the foreground, possibly delivering poor image quality to subjects at the end of the hallway, or would the camera try to re-focus itself towards the original manually-set position?
I know you can set certain cameras to focus in a specific range/area (such as Bosch, for example), but would that help? Or would it make the situation even worse, and thereby increasing the time trying to adjust the camera, where an operator/technician could have manually focused the camera?
Wouldn't it be grand if Lytro/light field technology could somehow be incorporated with surveillance? Depth of Field and focusing issues could potentially be a thing of the past. Has anyone ever used this type of technology?
Dreamers can dream I suppose.
Lytro is essentially worthless for surveillance. For starters, it does not solve any video surveillance problems that Autoback Focus cannot solve more straightforwardly.
Good point Brian, Autoback Focus can handle problems straightforwardly, and after reading that report, I'm ashamed I got caught up in the idea/hype and did not look further into the problems with it such as plenoptic camera (light-field cameras) trade resolution on X-Y plane for resolution on Z axis. No point for surveillance. Thanks for your input.
I find that auto focus works well and only had a few issues with it. Having a camera fall out of focus that doesnt starts to become a real headache to keep going back and focusing. Certainly a must have for most environments
Being new to this industry, I've never used a camera with auto focus, but I would tend to lean toward using it, based on the discussions concerning simpler and faster setup. I was also wondering about longevity and wear, but it doesn't sound like that's usually an issue.
Up until recently, all of out demo gear has been Axis cameras that have autofocus. In general I found it great and grew quite used to using it. Now that I'm getting some more real world experience with lower price tiers, I'm certainly missing this feature. After using it for a year, and then moving to cameras that I have to physical turn a dial to adjust them it seems like a lot more work.
I consider it mandatory to have some sort of auto or remote focusing system in any IP camera over standard definition. There's just too many ways in which the focus may not be dialled in right. Either by initial installation, focus shift at night, temperature variation etc.
If you've ever adjusted focus on an IP dome, you'll know what I mean. It's extremely hard to get your fingers in there to move the set screws, lock focus and lock set screws back into place without going a little off focus. It's bad enough with SD cameras, even worse on MPx cameras.
Ultimately, I feel the installer will benefit as much because they're be fewer service calls.
Ask questions and get answers to your physical security questions from IPVM team members and fellow subscribers.
