Subscriber Discussion

Question On Quotes - Using Disclaimer That This Is Just An Estimate

UI
Undisclosed Integrator #1
Mar 21, 2019

Do you do a quote with a final price that includes equipment and labor or do you do a quote that has an equipment price and an estimate for labor with a high and low estimate? We used to do a final price quote but now we are transitioning to giving an estimate to what it will cost to install with a disclaimer that this is just an estimate and it could be lower or higher.

AH
Andrew H
Mar 21, 2019

We generally provide a final quote with some cushion built in to cover unexpected expenses in the install phase.

(1)
Avatar
Jon Dillabaugh
Mar 22, 2019
Pro Focus LLC

We do a quote as a “Not to exceed” price. We make sure to account for everything possible, but there are times where we have overlooked things. If they are minor, we absorb the costs. If it is something major, we will discuss it with the client as soon as possible to see if we can agree on a resolution that works for both of us. 

(2)
(1)
UI
Undisclosed Integrator #2
Mar 22, 2019

As an end user this is the preferred method.  Often times our projects are large and require us to secure funding in advance from the higher ups.  To do this we must submit an AFE which has to have costs, reasoning for spending, etc.  If the amount starts high and ends up a little lower no big deal but if the funding in the AFE is not enough then we have to go back to them for additional funding which can be painful and slow down the project immensely.  Of course we typically add 10-15% to the AFE just in case.

(1)
JH
John Honovich
Mar 22, 2019
IPVM

#1, good topic. Essentially, this is the difference between a firm fixed price quote and a time and materials one. Buyers tend to like the former since the risk for labor and other contingencies is put on the seller. Of course, as Andrew mentions, sellers tend to build in cushion to reflect that risk/uncertainty.

Try it with the estimate / disclaimer approach and see what prospects say. If they agree, better for you but you may find some (many) want a fixed quote.

(1)
UI
Undisclosed Integrator #4
Mar 23, 2019

We provide a hard quote but pepper the proposal with CYA clauses like:  "assumes customer provides xxx" or "unforeseen complications due to site conditions may incur additional cost to be quoted on a time and materials basis" etc.  We're very detailed on a line by line basis in making any CYA comment we feel MIGHT come up on that particular line item whether its installation, wiring, project time delays by customer (we've had techs sitting in vans for 2 hrs waiting for customer to arrive and open up the building - we don't always charge for that but the CYA statement opens the door for us to charge if we need/want to.)  

(1)
JH
John Honovich
Mar 23, 2019
IPVM

We provide a hard quote but pepper the proposal with CYA clauses

Agreed. More fundamentally, those are the terms of the firm fixed price quote. Just like such a quote would specify how many doors or cameras, etc. are to be installed, it should reasonably cover items like who provides power, (e.g., could make it clear the quote is based on the customer providing power),  what times of day do you work (e.g., say explicitly business hours and if the customer wants you to work sunday night, that is extra), etc.

When a buyer wants a flat price for a project, the seller needs to be explicit about what is or is not included in that price.

(1)
UI
Undisclosed Integrator #1
Mar 22, 2019

Thank everyone for the responses. They are very helpful.

(1)
UI
Undisclosed Integrator #3
Mar 22, 2019

Ask yourself, which would you choose if you were buying for your own project?

(1)
Avatar
David Johnson
Mar 22, 2019

We most often use the 'This is our best estimate' line and issue an estimate with a disclaimer first.  Some clients ask for a fixed price quote and these are generally padded by at least 10%.   As a customer I would have carried out my due diligence and made sure the provider had a track record of being trustworthy.

 

Avatar
Meghan Uhl
Mar 23, 2019

As an end user/consumer - when I'm going to make a large purchase I want a firm quote.  I'm okay with additional charges if something comes up that no one could have predicted but I feel like a security professional should be able to design a project that covers all contingencies within reason and quote it accordingly.  If I get an open ended "here's how much we think it will cost" estimate I immediately get suspicious that its being underpriced on purpose to win the job and then I'm going to get hit with change orders and overages as the project progresses at which time I will already have paid a lot of money in the deposit and invested a lot of time so I'll be handcuffed into going over budget. I wouldn't sign off on an estimate like that.

(1)
UI
Undisclosed Integrator #5
Mar 23, 2019

Everyone in our company seems to do it a bit differently.  My personal method is to account for everything I can and add a small amount of padding for consumables and unforeseen items.  I add a decent amount of qualifications/disclaimers to cover typical and possible challenges that may occur on a project. For example I declare up front that are rates are based on our IBEW local and do not include shift premiums,  overtime, holidays, or weekends which add additional cost.  I do my best to let the customer know what costs they may have beyond us from other trades that may need to be involved but that do not fall under us.  My quotes are verbose and tell the customer exactly what we have in the project down to mount and cable numbers, door hardware, etc. This detail helps the customer know that I have thought out the quote fairly heavily.  However, If I catch word that data is on the street being shopped verbatim from my quote their next quote is a simple flat price and a list of disclaimers.

I see merits in the model of quotes just being an estimate.  I have a hard time going with that method.  With larger customers their budgetary numbers are set in stone years out and change orders are difficult for them to process through the system.  Because of those challenges they know they may pay more up front but also not die a death of a thousand cuts in change orders. If I miss something I eat it.  More often than not it works in our favor.  One fixed price with a healthy margin is best for all.

Obviously if the scope significantly changes such as adding a new door or camera location that is obviously a change order.

(1)
New discussion

Ask questions and get answers to your physical security questions from IPVM team members and fellow subscribers.

Newest discussions