Does Axis Overall Capabilities Justify Its Higher Price Vs Hikvision?

JH
John Honovich
Mar 06, 2019
IPVM

This debate broke out when an integrator using Hikvision shared his problems with their camera management vs Axis. So make your case - yes or no.

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PS
Phil Shanahan
Mar 07, 2019

Yes, Axis firmware is better than HikVision, more stable, more features, works with more VMS’s and better support in the event something doesn’t quite work. In my experience the mid range Axis P series is maybe 15-20% more expensive than Hikvision equilivant products so I don’t see any argument for using Hikvision on the projects my company is involved in, I will admit that we only really do larger enterprise and government type project though so maybe it’s different at the lower end/ smaller projects. 

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DR
Dennis Ruban
Mar 07, 2019

How much is 8MP fixed camera from Axis? Can you get one for $150?

What about 2MP PTZ with 25x zoom level and 150m IR? $600?

And then add some project discount when it's about the large enterprise. 15-20% at least.

I don't understand how you can compete with Hik unless you have government started a trade war and banned your competitor or you give a kick-back to someone to push Axis. If it's fair bidding for a brand new system (not Axis development), Hik would win 100% of times.

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JH
John Honovich
Mar 07, 2019
IPVM

Dennis, in fairness, both Axis and Hikvision ship hundreds of cameras. On the 2 examples you note, Hikvision has a huge advantage, I agree. In other categories, e.g., multi-imagers and thermals immediately come to mind, the price delta is much smaller.

DR
Dennis Ruban
Mar 07, 2019

Hey John, we both know that thermals are less than 1% of all the installed cameras (less than 0.01% maybe?).

Does Axis make multi-imagers better than Hik's panovu? 

JH
John Honovich
Mar 07, 2019
IPVM

Thermals are obviously low in terms of units but at thousands of dollars each, even low unit volumes can still mean high dollar terms.

Ethan knows more about the current multi-imager competitive situation as he / they are working towards a new shootout, but the new Axis one is quite good and inexpensive.

UE
Undisclosed End User #3
Mar 07, 2019

Yes, and the cost is cheaper for the Axis 8MP multisensor. The Hik camera looks like it has fixed lenses, Axis does not. Axis low light sensitivity and noise reduction is much better than hik imo. Also the zipstream is far superior than anything on the market imo. Another opinion...Axis has better quality image sensors than Hik.

 

Its also funny that there is someone who always comments anon with rebranded Hik part numbers to drive traffic to their sites...

U
Undisclosed #2
Mar 07, 2019

"What about 2MP PTZ with 25x zoom level and 150m IR? $600?"

You can get for $550 CA :)

DR
Dennis Ruban
Mar 07, 2019

Are you talking about Axis? What model?

U
Undisclosed #2
Mar 07, 2019

Privet Dennis :)

No, I am talking about HIK PTZ ( that same one you buy)

RF
Robert Fuller
Mar 07, 2019

Axis is a far superior product. Like Phil said the price difference between comparable models is minimal vs what you get.

UE
Undisclosed End User #1
Mar 07, 2019

Which Axis camera should I purchase in lieu of NSC-2A4-PTZ 4MP for equivalent price and capability?

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RF
Robert Fuller
Mar 07, 2019

I'm very much the type that likes to physically see the application before recommending a camera especially and equivalent to one completely site unseen.

First I would ask, "Why do you need a PTZ?"

Is this going to be on a guard tour at full 4mp resolution? If this is going to be on a guard tour, then for how many hours throughout the day? This will wear out the internal mechanisms much quicker than a fixed camera.

 

I would stick with a 2MP M-series minidome. They have I believe a ~100+ degree FOV, price is a bit more but you get alot more bang for your buck. I personally still see the old Axis 200 series and in the field working just as well as new comparable Hikvisions...I don't think a Hikvision PTZ will last 7-8 years in the field. 

Avatar
Sean Nelson
Mar 07, 2019
Nelly's Security

Well it depends on what you are talking about.

User interface, software, and overall userability: Im sure Axis wins this. I havent used an Axis in years but admittedly, Hikivision and just about every other Chinese manufacturer needs improvement in this area. Cameras web interfaces are fine, but much more simplification is needed in their CMS software. If this stuff is of great importance to you, so much so that you want to pay 2-3 times more on a camera, then go with Axis. Admittedly, I can think of some scenarios where this would come into play.

General Hardware Performance: The answer is quite simply, No. No it is not worth the higher price when looking at compartively specked cameras. Actually, as the previous post mentioned, sometimes Hikvision outperforms Axis and is lower prices. If what you care about most is a camera that provides a good image, is durable and reliable, then cost/value equation doesnt make sense with Axis.

A couple of people mentioned that the cost difference is minimal between Axis and Hikvision on comparitive cameras. Really? No Way!
Now if you are comparing a Hikvision weatherproof, outdoor rated 4MP metal dome camera to a Axis 720p indoor rated plastic camera, then maybe you have an argument. But those arent really comparitive cameras are they?


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UE
Undisclosed End User #1
Mar 07, 2019

Application is remote monitoring of private outdoor swimming and recreation area.

Teenagers are breaking in at night.

Motion detection would alert pool manager at home.

PTZ would be used to capture faces.

RF
Robert Fuller
Mar 07, 2019

Who is going to operate this PTZ at night and zoom in? Are lighting conditions good enough to capture the face? Is the PTZ operator skilled enough to zoom in on a moving object for a face? PTZs eat up storage on a guard tour especially at 4mp. With a face are you able to positively ID the kids? If so all you would be able to do legally is trespass them.

JH
John Honovich
Mar 07, 2019
IPVM

Consider a multi-imager, cost is roughly the same, e.g., Axis IR Multi Imager Camera Tested (P3717-PLE)Hikvision PanoVu Multi Imager Tested

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CH
Corbin Hambrick
Mar 07, 2019

If you're selling HIK then IMHO it's like saying: "I've got this Toyota Camry.  Is it worth the higher price to go with a Mercedes?".

...maybe not the BEST analogy but I think it's close.

U
Undisclosed #7
Mar 11, 2019

I just need the car to drop the kids at school and do the weekly Costco run. Do I really need to buy a Mercedes just to get Cheerios on the back seat?

And when the next fu@@$r who doesn't know how to park scratches my door, is it really worth it to pay 3500 USD in the shop?

 

Each use case has the camera befitting it. 

CH
Corbin Hambrick
Mar 11, 2019

I hear you...and I agree with you.

However maybe to make the analogy better; instead of a Camry in this case, I should have said something like:

a car with no seatbelts and every task (gas, break, blinker, wiper) takes 3 steps and it's not well documented to take those steps.

U
Undisclosed #6
Mar 11, 2019
IPVMU Certified

a car with no seatbelts and every task (gas, break, blinker, wiper) takes 3 steps and it's not well documented to take those steps.

Avatar
Rainald Schulte-Eppendorf
Apr 29, 2019
Santa Cruz Video Security LLC

That‘s the point. It depends on what you want. If you need the car for dropping your kids the Toyota will be great. Should you go 20,000 miles per year on highways you might prefer a more comfortable car. 

Should you want to watch your dog in the garden or your kids in the house a cheaper camera will work. But should security really matter you will probably prefer a reliable, high quality camera like AXIS, Bosch, Dallmeier etc. And should you be concerned about cybersecurity (and you should, if security really matters) than AXIS - especially with the features of the new ARTPEC-7 chip - will be decent product. Other aspects: Support,  warranty, product range, installation costs, trustworthiness, sustainability. 

And I do agree: should you just want to drop off your kids (or watch them) a Toyota (or a cheaper camera) will definitely suffice. 

Avatar
Meghan Uhl
May 24, 2019

lol....been there and done (handbrake & downshift only) that PLUS 4 and 40 air-conditioning (4 windows down and drive 40mph for you youngsters who have never suffered driving in the desert with no air-conditioning)

Avatar
Kyle Folger
Mar 09, 2019
IPVMU Certified

Axis wins in software management. In my opinion, they win for their newer multi sensor cameras, such as the P3717-PLE and P3707-PE. However, these are more specialized cameras. When you compare Axis' higher end cameras with Hikvision's higher end cameras, the price isn't that much different. In that case, the easier management software found with Axis is justified depending on the application and scale.

For smaller deployments, when you know the shot you need and use software calculators to get that shot, the fixed lens Hikvision cameras win in my opinion. Yes, Axis offers fixed lens cameras, but I haven't seen many options for lens selection with cameras in the price bracket of Axis. Hikvision simply sells many of their fixed lens cameras with options of 2.8mm, 4mm, 6mm, 8mm, and 12mm. However, the application would determine how much nice management software would be. The installation on a fixed lens cameras is also a little faster. If using varifocal with IP, motorized zoom should be the only option. That's the only downside with the Axis P3707.

Hikvision does list a newer multi sensor camera, the DS-2CD6D24FWD-Z, but I prefer the Axis design alone to this design. Looking at the quick start guide, it seems to have a cable whip and it's a much taller profile than the Axis.

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U
Undisclosed #6
Mar 10, 2019
IPVMU Certified

congratulations on your rare, balanced and practical appraisal of this polarized issue :)

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UE
Undisclosed End User #4
Mar 09, 2019

the management alone is worth the price for people that actively manage large systems 

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UI
Undisclosed Integrator #5
Mar 10, 2019

As someone who has never installed an Axis camera, but has installed a number of Hikvision cameras, what would be the best way to purchase Axis cameras for testing and to become familiar with their products?  

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JS
John Shea
Mar 11, 2019

If you live next to one, their classes.  Its a good class, it gets you "Axis Certified", you will get hands on a bunch of different cameras, and at the end of the class they will send you home with a P-3225LV with 4 licenses for their VMS. 

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UI
Undisclosed Integrator #5
Mar 11, 2019

Thank you

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Avatar
Meghan Uhl
May 24, 2019

They have a great demo program.  Talk to your local Axis rep.  We've taken advantage of the demo program and it went very well each time.  

DR
Dennis Ruban
May 24, 2019

I'd like to see your post when you play with Axis for a bit. Something like "Why do people pay so much for this?!!!"

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Avatar
Mike Smith
Mar 11, 2019
IPVMU Certified

Do you really think you can compare Axis to Hikvision?

JH
John Honovich
Mar 11, 2019
IPVM

Mike, they both make IP cameras, seems like something that would be comparable? :)

But are you suggesting one is far better or different than the other?

U
Undisclosed #6
Mar 11, 2019
IPVMU Certified

Do you really think you can compare Axis to Hikvision?

sure

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UI
Undisclosed Integrator #8
Mar 11, 2019

Hi

Is Axis superiority factual?  My experience would say No. Axis interface is nicer but once someone gets the hang of an interface the differences disappear... or are blunted to the point of irrelevance. Better support? Perhaps. although Hik is making a serious run in the USA on that front:  they reply within a few minutes. 

At this point in time I see little advantage to using Axis in most jobs. The delta may be smaller at the high end but often low end Hik cameras are stellar performers. VMS companies have taken notice: most support Hik cameras as well as they support Axis. They better ... You don't ignore the largest (and by far) without dire consequences.

I want to see facts not opinions. Those with more experience than I should chime in. 

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tw
thomas worthington
Apr 30, 2019
Kings III of America

For smaller jobs of 2-16 cameras with Hik's NVR's and hybrid NVR, we use Hikvision 95% of the time over Axis.  Axis Companion line is terrible.  Hikvision 's new Q series NVR;s are very affordable.

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